Fun, and Fast

Ya, about 4-5 seconds per 100... I guess you'll have to try harder without finz, eh? As far as similar sets, etc. we are training for the same events, so that seems reasonable. Hmmmm .... I just swam 3 x (3 x 100) yesterday with a slightly different spin ... after which I did 500 dolphin on back with MF ... and the day before I was dolphin diving. :) So with fins you're 4-5 seconds faster per 100? I think it's more like 10 seconds for me. Tonight's swim SCM 900 warm up done as 300 swim/kick/dps 2x{} Repeat times on the 50's from push 26.7 26.3 26.4 25.95 10x50 dolphin on back with fins on :60 2x200 easy

Thanks Jonathan, that gives me something to focus on. Up to now I have just swum them all slow to medium pace with a focus on getting an early catch. But I have the concentration span of a 5 year old and I am hardly past the first length and my mind has already drifted off somewhere else. Eventually it all ends up as a moderate pace aerobic workout. I will definitely be trying what you refer to as 'extended DPS'. Thanks again and best of luck for your swim meet! Do post your results.

Jonathan, what is your area of focus when swimming DPS? I mean, apart from the obvious of trying to increase your distance per stroke. Are you focussing on the catch or body position? And at what kind of pace do you swim? I notice you never give times for DPS, only rest intervals. Hey Syd, sorry about the delay of this response. I've been pondering your question(s) and I wanted to answer them as best as possible. The answer is, it depends... After thinking more about DPS, I realize that there are a few variations, depending on what particular phase of the stroke I'm working on. Actually, DPS is pretty much the only drill I do, except for head up freestyle with dolphin kick. At this point I've figured there are at least three distinct types of DPS, and seperate training goals for each. The "Regular" DPS, which means swimming as per usual, only trying to reach a few inches more per stroke, without a break in the typical timing. Sets like "golf" average, where you bring the total number of strokes plus the time, as low as possible. This is great way to actually stay in a relative swimming mode while maximizing DPS, although there is a limit to how low the DPS can get, as this is still Full Stroke. The "Extended" DPS is not really swimming, but more like walking your arms. You count to a minimum of 3 seconds on each stroke, and literally pause at the top while the other arm finishes, and glide, and stretch, switch. This DPS is geared towards maximizing the full extension of your shoulders, and rotation through the water, while simultaneously minimizing the resistance. This training is critical for top speed, but should be practiced at a pace slower than 45 seconds per 50, or even slower. The arms shouldn't be feeling too much effort at all, as the key to this drill is opening the shoulder girth on the horizontal plane, and hold the extension for the full 3 seconds. This will significantly improve the range of motion in your shoulders, and will ultimately improve your swimming efficiency after several months of consistent training. The "Virtual" DPS is at a pace that is a bit faster than the "extended" DPS, only with even less strokes. How is that possible? It is quite difficult, but requires a very steady kick, and a very strong pull. There should still be a glide of 3-4 seconds, so more exaggerated than the "regular" DPS, yet the effort over-all could still be much higher. This emphasizes the breathing patterns, as well as the body roll. Of course, the kicking plays a large part, and the shoulder girth is still extending, but you essentially put more power into the stroke. I ask because I never really know what to do for DPS sets and end up losing the count after the second lap (or is it length?) with the result that I don't seem to be getting any benefit out of these sets. Yes, DPS isn't an instant gratification type of work-out. It takes constant practice, and you might only see the benefit after 2-3 months. One trick as far as the counting goes, only focus on the last "length" of each set, figure out what the count is at the end, when you're most fatigued, and improve that number. Once the range of motion in your shoulder girth has been significantly altered you won't ever want to train without DPS. In fact, if I had to choose between DPS training and sprint endurance, and only had one option, I would pick the DPS for top speed considerations. PS, I have a swim meet tomorrow, wish me luck!

Thanks again and best of luck for your swim meet! Do post your results. Well, I'm disappointed with the swim meet for several reasons, and this might be a good time to admit I was wrong. Chris Stevenson, and Brian (Jazz Hands) have been staunch critics of the tech suits, and I must admit, after this competition many doubts have been firmly established in my mind. My results were not up to my personal standards, although, I realize that I should have chosen the 100's to race, possibly even the 200's, because that's what I've been training for. However, early in the season, I chose all the 50's and the 25 free for this meet. Now, I know that this might be a bit of a concession to the critics, perhaps it was because I was wearing a second generation tech suit, either way, the hype did leave me lacking in enthusiasm. First the 50 fly, I was trying the track start, and again, I should have practiced this more, but needless to say, I entered the water sideways. So there I was, deep and out of streamline, wearing my "great" tech suit, struggling just to make it to the surface. The turn was a bit better, and the last 15 meters felt glorious, still 27.1 SCM is the SLOWEST I've been in over 8 years! Then the shock set in, have I been duped? I mean, the turn felt good, and the last part of the race was decent enough, my splits were ridiculous, 13.2, 13.9, but now I was starting to get cold, and a few race-mates conceded that the suit gets heavy when wet, and it's best to have 4-5 different suits per meet. WHAT?!! Right, it's only effective when dry? So there I am, wanting to race a decent 25 free, hoping to have a better start. Being keen, I hold the start early, but wait, I'm leaning, no, no ,no, arrrgggghhh, I fell in the water. The rules are the rules are the rules... No worries, it's only a 25 free, and I'm soaking wet with the whole pool watching. The meet official mentions to me, you know, the show must go on, without "the rule breaker". At which point, there was a bit of an uproar, and it was a small consolation to hear half the pool chanting, "Let him swim! Let him swim! Let him swim!." True story, although it wasn't until after, when someone mentioned to me what the crowd was actually saying, because what I first heard was, "Rip the suit! Rip the suit! Rip the suit!" Thankfully, my girlfriend was able to put a positive spin on the whole experience, "At least this isn't Nationals, this is the best time to learn." So the next event, 50 breaststroke, not my best event, so I decided to keep the tech suit on, wet or not, give it a try. Okay, 34.2 SCM, blah, again, my slowest in 8 years. I couldn't even pull properly, my shoulders felt restricted, and the kick was slipping the whole way... very disappointing... At this point I was thinking, Chris Stevenson is going to make me eat my swim cap. Out of frustration I took the suit off, and my girlfriend says, "why don't you wear the pink speedo brief instead?" Why not? So for the 50 free, I stood up and was surprised to "feel" the water again. You know? I've always been more into the flow, etc. and really, I couldn't feel that in the full body suit. Ironically, the only race at this meet that I was somewhat happy with was the 50 free, with a time of 24.6, decent enough for "in-season", yet again, my start was horrible, and my splits were, 12.30, 12.36 WHAT?! After this race I resigned myself to the fact that I really was duped, although a few people mentioned that the suit makes a bigger difference on the 100's and 200's, perhaps, but only when DRY?!! A few of the top performers at the meet did wear a different tech suit for each race. Leg skins for ***, full body for free... Fine, not a complete hoax, but everyone I spoke to mentioned the B-70 is an excellent suit, better priced, more durable, and the 100 breaststroke WR SCM was set wearing it... (not sure if that information is accurate, considering it was second-hand. Although, I'll cling to any myth that might help my breaststroke, have I really learned anything? Maybe I should just train stroke specific!) So for the final race I put my work-out Jammers over top of my pink speedo, and began to think of the meet as just another training session. In which case the times became quasi-acceptable, and I started to reconcile my failure as just a matter of pre-race expectations. Last season I wasn't really expecting to go sub 52, for the 100 free, or certainly not a 1:54.9 200, and these races left me feeling pleasant for at least 6 months. Here I was, making a rookie mistake at an in-season meet, expecting to drop 5-6 tenths off my best times in the 50's, without really training for them, all because of the suit, and it didn't happen that way.

Hi Jonathan, Saying I'm a critic of the suits overstates it a little. Just to clarify my position -- and there are really two: -- I personally don't like the feel of the suits, for pretty much the reasons you mentioned, but if they are really a lot faster, part of the training process is getting used to using them. If they are faster, then I will wear them but will regret the need to do so. -- I am unsure how much faster the suits are (or if they are at all) under race conditions for someone who is rested and shaved. I think there are a lot of superstitions out there about swimming and don't like to see one perpetuated based on anecdotal evidence, particularly given the expense of the suits. That doesn't mean the suits aren't faster (it is a complicated question) just that I'd like to see some well designed experiments that compare the difference between a well trained swimmer rested and shaved, in briefs (or jammers, which are relatively cheap) compared to the suit. What were you wearing, the FSII? My own experience is that -- FOR ME -- the FSII was not significantly different than wearing briefs or jammers. I started a thread on it last spring. But I do think the B70 or LZR suits are in a different category. The effect may also be dependent on stroke mechanics, course (short course vs long course) and body types. Based on my experience and impressions (but not a well designed expt), I think the B70 is likely faster for me when unrested/unshaved. But, while I wore the suit last year at LCM nationals, the times I achieved were not any faster than I would have expected without a fancy suit, based on my training times and previous performances. So (again, FOR ME) the evidence is inconclusive. I very much doubt I'll get a LZR unless the prices come down considerably. I might consider the XTerra version of the B70 for my next suit, though (it is cheaper than the B70 and I'm curious about it).

Bad luck on the false start and the slipping...sure it wasn't funny at the time but it must have been quite a sight! Can't say I am that enamoured by the idea of wearing a tech suit, either. Still don't own one myself but have promised myself that when I drop below a certain time I will try one out. It is true about the 100m SCM WR - according to Ande, Cameron Van Der Burgh was wearing one when he went 56:88 at the Fina/Arena Swimming World Cup in Moscow on November 9. He also broke the record for the 50m SCM breastroke in Stockholm on Novemver 11. He went 25:94.

Tech suits don't help as much in 50s. From a physics standpoint, this doesn't make sense to me; maybe I'm missing something. Drag forces would increase at higher speeds, so I would expect that suits that work by reducing drag would be more effective at higher speeds. So -- based on drag, not buoyancy -- I would sort of expect the high-end suits to be more effective in shorter distances, and in short course compared to long course (more time spend underwater at higher speeds).

I don't like the FS II. It has compression, but gets heavy when wet. It's absolutely accurate that the suits are better dry than wet. (Although this does not seem to apply to the B70.) ... My first meet ever this weekend in a B70 and I didn't notice it feeling heavy after being wet. I warmed up in it before the 800, 400 and 50 frees, then hung out on deck for maybe 15 to 20 minutes before the long races and about 5 minutes before the 50. Even in the Arizona sun, the suit didn't get dry ... and it still felt fast. I still need to swim more in the suit for IMs to see how I feel about it. I did do a 100 IM in it, but that was about 20/25 minutes after my 400. I went a solid time, but was still too tired from the 400, I think, to give the suit a real chance.

My first meet ever this weekend in a B70 and I didn't notice it feeling heavy after being wet. I warmed up in it before the 800, 400 and 50 frees, then hung out on deck for maybe 15 to 20 minutes before the long races and about 5 minutes before the 50. Even in the Arizona sun, the suit didn't get dry ... and it still felt fast. I still need to swim more in the suit for IMs to see how I feel about it. I did do a 100 IM in it, but that was about 20/25 minutes after my 400. I went a solid time, but was still too tired from the 400, I think, to give the suit a real chance. Hey Patrick, I was talking about the FS II being heavy, not the B70. I don't notice the B70 being heavy at all either even when wet.

From a physics standpoint, this doesn't make sense to me; maybe I'm missing something. Drag forces would increase at higher speeds, so I would expect that suits that work by reducing drag would be more effective at higher speeds. So -- based on drag, not buoyancy -- I would sort of expect the high-end suits to be more effective in shorter distances, and in short course compared to long course (more time spend underwater at higher speeds). As a liberal arts major, I can't really speak to the physics of the suit. My own experience is that I don't seem to notice much difference in the 50s between the FS I and the FS II. The Pro might be a little faster for a 50 than either of these. But, I wonder if the key advantage provided by the B70 is more buoyancy and compression than drag reduction? Buoyancy seems less of a factor in 50 when you're already traveling at high speed and more of a factor when you're traveling more slowly over longer distances. For instance, I seem to recall Tall Paul saying that in a longer race, you should take it out faster because he though the B70 would keep your legs up on the way home.