Everyone in the gym wears a mask (mandated in our state in the gym) however, one of the guards spent most of the hour I was swimming in the chair (in between breaks) with the mask off, unless she had to speak to the other guard. She's taken short mask breaks in the past, but this was ridiculous. All member have to wear the mask in the gym, while working out, on the deck, etc. and an employee of the fitness center doesn't. I'm surprised the other "main" guard has let this go, since he never removes his mask.
How tragic and heartbreaking! I was shocked that Kurt, an emergency room physician no less, would say such an irresponsible thing.
Elaine. I love you dearly but you have a bad habit of reading emotions or intentions into posts that are not there.
Intuitively, lifeguards seem like they would help, but there is not a lot of evidence to their benefit. And, you now have two examples from me and 67 that they didn't help when they were present.
I'm sure there is benefit but it may require 100s of thousands of lifeguard hours to show it.
I honestly don't really think he said anything irresponsible.
This is what I thought was irresponsible in Kurt's response: in general, lifeguards are unneeded and probably a waste of money.
Gotta mark this thread - not often you and I don't see thigns more closely :)
I stand corrected on the non-sequitur. You're right about being "tired" (under normal circumstances) wouldn't figure in.
I'm not defending the lifeguard now that I know the full story. That guard deserved to be fired! I also think if the host team was notified of the girl's medical condition, it was the responsibility of the coach to notify the lifeguard.
Aside from that specific situation, I still stand by my last paragraph. It was just a side note while we were on the topic.
In the end, I don't really think we were in disagreement. If I had a better picture of the situation before I responded, I would have just said the host team should have notified the lifeguard, and then I would have added the last paragraph.
Elaine. I love you dearly but you have a bad habit of reading emotions or intentions into posts that are not there.
Intuitively, lifeguards seem like they would help, but there is not a lot of evidence to their benefit. And, you now have two examples from me and 67 that they didn't help when they were present.
I'm sure there is benefit but it may require 100s of thousands of lifeguard hours to show it.
No emotions about it. When you say, "in general, lifeguards are unneeded and probably a waste of money" it is irresponsible. How many lives have been saved across the country because lifeguards saved them? Sorry, but in my opinion, it is not a waste of money to save lives. Your two examples don't convince me.
Kurt, it isn't always about money. As an emergency room physician, I thought you feel that saving lives is the top priority.
As for the "tragic and heartbreaking" part of my post, that was regarding the death of the 19-year-old girl died where no lifeguard was present.
No emotions about it... How many lives have been saved across the country because lifeguards saved them?
No emotions? You regularly insult people you don't agree with and justify it in your mind by calling them stupid, dangerous, or evil.
As far as your question goes, you may be right, I don't know the answer. Do you? I nearly drowned twice before I was 5 and was rescued by family. In my 47 years of competitive swimming, the only lifeguard save I have ever seen or heard of is Wendy Peffercorn but I suspect 'Squints' was faking it.
Oh, I think lifeguards are valuable, necessary, and serve a purpose. I just don't believe they are always necessary. I don't think lap swimmers or club practices are really places where they are necessary. Not knowing the details on the Emory swimmer, where was teh coach? Other swimmers? And even when they are present, they are not always going to be able to save the life of a swimmer who has pushed things too hard (e.g. www.wcvb.com/.../8230091 - one of our assistant coaches somehow knew about this, and Nathaniel indicated he was dead before he got to the wall).
I think ideally, we should all have a buddy we swim with, or at least not swim in the pool alone. I do it, unfortunately, as that is when I can swim.
Where I *DO* think lifeguards are absolutely beneficial are more recreational swimming. For people who are more at risk from a lack of skill or conditioning. Or if you have a large, multi lane public pool that attracts its large share of out of shape noodlers, combined with some free swim types, they are by all means a good idea.
The cost thing is a real issue. There are probably fewer than a dozen people who use the pool at my Gold's. But if they put a lifeguard there...$15/hr times 19 hjours a day, plus other expenses (payroll taxes, any benefits) are going to push it well over $300/day. If smaller gyms with small lap pools had to incur that, they would probably take out the pools, or clsoe them except for the water aerobics classes.
Well, I'm thinking that for every story where "the guard didn't do a thing", there may be 10, or 1000 stories where the guard did do what was needed.
God help us if the Lifeguard Association sees this thread.
This is USMS, right?
I really think folks are reading too much into things that aren't there, or aren't fully understanding the context of the question. I'll tell you I was very surprised at the first meet I went to for my kids when I saw lifeguards. I figured a swim meet with a dozen coaches watching every kid would be about the last place a lifeguard would be needed. I think if we were talking in person, we'd be able to get our points across and not shock anyone.
I will say that, to address the OP's point, I have never seen a lifeguard who was distracted with phones, food, or whatever, while on the chair. Even if she was trying to come up with names for all 9 of the kids she was going to have with a brave dork nicknamed "Squints."
Well, I'm thinking that for every story where "the guard didn't do a thing", there may be 10, or 1000 stories where the guard did do what was needed.
God help us if the Lifeguard Association sees this thread.
This is USMS, right?
I hope the Lifeguard Association sees this thread. Perhaps they can enlighten us all with a randomized double-blind study from the "American Journal of Lifeguarding" proving their efficacy or at least the 1000 stories you reference.
I'm man enough to temper my ignorant absolute statement as long as others do the same for their requirement for lifeguard presence at all times and all places. My only point is sometimes safety is an illusion. Perhaps we pay attention to our child more when we know there is not a lifeguard around and perhaps a mask-less lifeguard 14 feet away, while likely annoying, isn't dangerous. Really no need to be judgy
No emotions? You regularly insult people you don't agree with and justify it in your mind by calling them stupid, dangerous, or evil.
As far as your question goes, you may be right, I don't know the answer. Do you? I nearly drowned twice before I was 5 and was rescued by family. In my 47 years of competitive swimming, the only lifeguard save I have ever seen or heard of is Wendy Peffercorn but I suspect 'Squints' was faking it.
I won't even go there except to stay that you DON'T know what I am thinking other than the words I write.
You're personal experience at 5 years old or during your 47 years of competitive swimming is just that--- your personal experience. You could hardly compare that to the entire country.
www.cdc.gov/.../LifeguardReport-a.pdf
From the above report:
Each year, about 4,000 people die from drowning in the United States. Drowning was a leading cause of unintentional injury death among all ages in 1998, and the second leading cause of unintentional injury death among children ages 1-14 that same year.Approximately 50-75% of drownings occur in open water such as oceans, lakes, rivers, and ponds. About 60% of drowning deaths among children occur in swimming pools.
Many organizations, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC),routinely respond to inquiries regarding the efficacy of lifeguards in preventing drownings. Community and local government officials facing decisions about whether to begin,retain, or discontinue life guarding services typically want to know whether lifeguards are truly effective in preventing drowning and other aquatic mishaps, and whether the value of providing lifeguard protection outweighs the costs. Most drownings are preventable through a variety of strategies, one of which is to provide lifeguards in public areas where people are known to swim and to encourage people to swim in those protected areas.Some estimates indicate that the chance of drowning at a beach protected by lifeguard scan be less than one in 18 million. There is no doubt that trained, professional lifeguards have had a positive effect on drowning prevention in the United States.
