Just for context, I started swimming five years ago and I'm 42 years old. After a lot of floundering I got down to 1:50 per 100, and I do about 3000 meters a workout. I used to just swim it out, now I'm working on intervals and actually trying to push myself in a semi intelligent way.
I am haunted by my kicking problems, inasmuch as they're weaker than my arms and I tend to always move from side to side. I came to the conclusion this morning in my workout that breathing on only one side on every second stroke was forcing me to angle out every stroke and compounded my problems with keeping straight and letting my kicking propel me forward as opposed to side to side.
I started working this morning on breathing on alternate sides on every third stroke and while I have to re-train my lungs to accept the breathing differently and get comfortable one goggling the non dominant side, I immediately saw a big change in how I was gliding through the water and felt like I was swimming a bit with a pull buoy.
I had back surgery two years ago and for 18 months only swam with a buoy which probably made my problems a lot worse because I wasn't working on my core but was getting stronger with my pull, and wasn't addressing my weak kicking problem and facing up to the challenge of breathing on one side was pulling me a bit askance every stroke.
Anyways here's the question for you pros. Am I thinking about this problem right?
I tried to post the workout I need today. When I was working half through on breathing side to side I felt I had to go a lot slower to accommodate the new breathing technique and get comfortable with turning to the left, as well.
Any feedback would be really helpful. I know it's going to take a long time to put the breathing, catch and kicking pieces back together but I really want to get down into the 1:30's per 100 just for me, and I know without some great kicking I will never ever get there.
Thanks Windrath and Flystorm. This is all very helpful stuff. Will continue to try and integrate it.
One question I have on Bow and Arrow: I have been trying it without any gear and only sculling with one hand while the other is elbow high position. When I am on my right side with left elbow high I manage to survive, when I flip to my left side with right elbow high I almost drown and have to kick extra extra hard to even stay afloat.
I thought about this during my swim today and tried applying what I *think* the lesson was which was that my kick when on my left side was weaker than the other and contributing to my snaking and tried to make the three kicks on that side extra ferocious. It seemed to level off the snaking a bit, but like all experiments I need to apply it multiple times to try and figure it out.
What is my problem here and how should I go about addressing it?
@Flystorm:
1. Will keep at it. Right now in the morning when I wake up a sore bum and thigh is the only indication that I am indeed trying to kick well. I don't *think* I am bending my knees beyond the movement when it flicks down.
2. Will try this drill. Sounds like a good one. Will report back after I try it.
@Windrath:
a) I will have to figure out a way to count this. I have so much going on in my head right now when I'm swimming I don't know if I can count kicks. I am trying to do three on one side, three on the other. But I will try and report back.
b) The bilateral breathing I am having a lot of trouble with. I snake a LOT less when I breathe every three strokes and change breathing direction, but the extra stroke really starves me of oxygen and I feel like I'm gasping more to get through a lap. That could be my fitness, probably is. On the other hand, I do feel like I fight less when I breathe bilaterally or entirely on my non-dominant side. I'm not sure what to deduce from this yet, but I know it's telling me something.
c) it might be...the difficulty I think I feel is that the power from my hips needed to generate propulsion doesn't feel like its there and when I have to move the fins it works less. This could be a false deduction, but I do remark when I put the fins on to really work it I do achieve the propulsion in where I can move in a much straighter line but I tire out really quickly and start snaking even with the fins, I think.
d) I posed the question above as to how to analyse it, regarding this. I do rotate my shoulders for sure...it's just one side is vastly different power wise than the other and I'm not sure how to think about what this means. Regarding the rotation, I've been trying to visualise the tick tock toy from Finis, which I didn't buy but wondered why it was so important that someone spent money to create something like it, to rotate my hips in conjunction with my pull to try and achieve the skating analogy which you put so well.
e) I've just been trying to visualise my finger to elbow region as being a brick that can't bend
f) Indeed - this is a real challenge. Currently - and I could be thinking about it wrong - I'm comfortable with the notion that propulsion is enhanced by a slight rocking/rotisserie and try to visualise trying to swim through a very small hoop with one arm on each stroke so that I'm always trying to make myself as long and strong as possible. I could be thinking about it wrong but the challenge I think I am facing is that when I started trying to kick six beats instead of the two beat scissor, I threw a monkey wrench into the drag portion of that philosophy and don't have the mustard to generate enough power to control the propulsion of slipping and sliding...so I'm grappling to make it.
Again, this is my own deduction of self coaching which I acknowledge is a dangerous slippery slope.
In conclusion, I cannot wait till I get my Hero next week and cajole my daughter to tape me. I think the pictures won't lie and will expose many flaws in the deductions I am presenting here about my form.
Dave
dsg10715,
Thanks for the extensive post. Maintaining good stroke technique can be a challenge for very talented swimmers when no one (aka "coach") is watching. Your situation is much harder - much of what you see on Youtube is geared towards swimmers with more experience and understanding. It is great that you want your 3,000 yds/day to mean something.
Some brief comments on your post:
a) With kicking, I am curious how many kicks you do in a 25 yard kick. I have a pretty good kick and use 65-70 downward kicks per 25. If you are alot higher than that, it could be due to poor ankle flexibility or, as Flystorm mentioned, too much knee bend.
b) You mention that you focus on bilateral breathing with rotating from the hips and not the shoulder. For my swimmers and me personally, I focus more on shoulder rotation than hip rotation. Trying to rotate your hips without rotating your shoulders could lead to some very odd arm movements which may explain the issue. When swimmers snake, it is usually because the hips are too high and there is not enough shoulder rotation.
c) If you find kicking with fins to be very hard, it sounds like you are bending your knees too much.
d) Bow and arrow drill is virtually impossible if you are not rotating your shoulders. May explain why you find it hard to do.
e) Don't understand the "brick" comment in your paddle paragraph.
f) Your final paragraph is the challenge for so many swimmers - how to generate power. Power is generated by the body rotating from side to side. Instead of thinking that freestyle is swum on your stomach, think about as rotating (or rocking) from side to side. Just like a baseball pitcher, a football quarterback, or a boxer, the power in their delivery comes from rotational power. Think of your body creating tension by twisting around your spine with your arms and legs counter-balancing each other. You create the tension and then release the tension by rotation to the other side.
Skating a great comparison for swimming - except that the ice provides a solid foundation to push against. When you are skating, your arms and legs go in opposite directions which creates tension through your torso. As they change positions, I am sure you can feel the power when you change sides. You are gliding on one skate, while the other leg is "cocked" and ready to go forward. Swimming is exactly the same movement - just different planes.
Will be interested to hear your feedback.
Good Luck.
paul
Just to confirm, when you are skating for power, do your shoulder movement forward and back as much as your hips? Seems like it to me. Swimming is the same way.
Thanks Windrath and Flystorm. This is all very helpful stuff. Will continue to try and integrate it.
One question I have on Bow and Arrow: I have been trying it without any gear and only sculling with one hand while the other is elbow high position. When I am on my right side with left elbow high I manage to survive, when I flip to my left side with right elbow high I almost drown and have to kick extra extra hard to even stay afloat.
I thought about this during my swim today and tried applying what I *think* the lesson was which was that my kick when on my left side was weaker than the other and contributing to my snaking and tried to make the three kicks on that side extra ferocious. It seemed to level off the snaking a bit, but like all experiments I need to apply it multiple times to try and figure it out.
What is my problem here and how should I go about addressing it?
@Flystorm:
1. Will keep at it. Right now in the morning when I wake up a sore bum and thigh is the only indication that I am indeed trying to kick well. I don't *think* I am bending my knees beyond the movement when it flicks down.
2. Will try this drill. Sounds like a good one. Will report back after I try it.
@Windrath:
a) I will have to figure out a way to count this. I have so much going on in my head right now when I'm swimming I don't know if I can count kicks. I am trying to do three on one side, three on the other. But I will try and report back.
b) The bilateral breathing I am having a lot of trouble with. I snake a LOT less when I breathe every three strokes and change breathing direction, but the extra stroke really starves me of oxygen and I feel like I'm gasping more to get through a lap. That could be my fitness, probably is. On the other hand, I do feel like I fight less when I breathe bilaterally or entirely on my non-dominant side. I'm not sure what to deduce from this yet, but I know it's telling me something.
c) it might be...the difficulty I think I feel is that the power from my hips needed to generate propulsion doesn't feel like its there and when I have to move the fins it works less. This could be a false deduction, but I do remark when I put the fins on to really work it I do achieve the propulsion in where I can move in a much straighter line but I tire out really quickly and start snaking even with the fins, I think.
d) I posed the question above as to how to analyse it, regarding this. I do rotate my shoulders for sure...it's just one side is vastly different power wise than the other and I'm not sure how to think about what this means. Regarding the rotation, I've been trying to visualise the tick tock toy from Finis, which I didn't buy but wondered why it was so important that someone spent money to create something like it, to rotate my hips in conjunction with my pull to try and achieve the skating analogy which you put so well.
e) I've just been trying to visualise my finger to elbow region as being a brick that can't bend
f) Indeed - this is a real challenge. Currently - and I could be thinking about it wrong - I'm comfortable with the notion that propulsion is enhanced by a slight rocking/rotisserie and try to visualise trying to swim through a very small hoop with one arm on each stroke so that I'm always trying to make myself as long and strong as possible. I could be thinking about it wrong but the challenge I think I am facing is that when I started trying to kick six beats instead of the two beat scissor, I threw a monkey wrench into the drag portion of that philosophy and don't have the mustard to generate enough power to control the propulsion of slipping and sliding...so I'm grappling to make it.
Again, this is my own deduction of self coaching which I acknowledge is a dangerous slippery slope.
In conclusion, I cannot wait till I get my Hero next week and cajole my daughter to tape me. I think the pictures won't lie and will expose many flaws in the deductions I am presenting here about my form.
Dave
dsg10715,
Thanks for the extensive post. Maintaining good stroke technique can be a challenge for very talented swimmers when no one (aka "coach") is watching. Your situation is much harder - much of what you see on Youtube is geared towards swimmers with more experience and understanding. It is great that you want your 3,000 yds/day to mean something.
Some brief comments on your post:
a) With kicking, I am curious how many kicks you do in a 25 yard kick. I have a pretty good kick and use 65-70 downward kicks per 25. If you are alot higher than that, it could be due to poor ankle flexibility or, as Flystorm mentioned, too much knee bend.
b) You mention that you focus on bilateral breathing with rotating from the hips and not the shoulder. For my swimmers and me personally, I focus more on shoulder rotation than hip rotation. Trying to rotate your hips without rotating your shoulders could lead to some very odd arm movements which may explain the issue. When swimmers snake, it is usually because the hips are too high and there is not enough shoulder rotation.
c) If you find kicking with fins to be very hard, it sounds like you are bending your knees too much.
d) Bow and arrow drill is virtually impossible if you are not rotating your shoulders. May explain why you find it hard to do.
e) Don't understand the "brick" comment in your paddle paragraph.
f) Your final paragraph is the challenge for so many swimmers - how to generate power. Power is generated by the body rotating from side to side. Instead of thinking that freestyle is swum on your stomach, think about as rotating (or rocking) from side to side. Just like a baseball pitcher, a football quarterback, or a boxer, the power in their delivery comes from rotational power. Think of your body creating tension by twisting around your spine with your arms and legs counter-balancing each other. You create the tension and then release the tension by rotation to the other side.
Skating a great comparison for swimming - except that the ice provides a solid foundation to push against. When you are skating, your arms and legs go in opposite directions which creates tension through your torso. As they change positions, I am sure you can feel the power when you change sides. You are gliding on one skate, while the other leg is "cocked" and ready to go forward. Swimming is exactly the same movement - just different planes.
Will be interested to hear your feedback.
Good Luck.
paul
Just to confirm, when you are skating for power, do your shoulder movement forward and back as much as your hips? Seems like it to me. Swimming is the same way.
