Ultra Short Training At Race Pace

Former Member
Former Member
coachsci.sdsu.edu/.../ultra40a.pdf There is a method, which is referred to as the Rushall method which Michael Andrew uses. Was wondering if you had any critique about this. If this sort of training is a good idea and what are the problems. Would this also be good for longer events? Like the 400 IM? Thanks!
  • If anyone could help me set some workouts up, it'd be greatly appreciated. Currently training the 50 free, 100 free, 200 free, 100 ***, 200 ***, 200 IM. Before I can answer that, I have a few questions. How frequently can you train? What are your recent best times for the events? How would you prioritize the events in importance?
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I read somewhere on SwimSwam last week that Michael Andrew will be swimming in a LCM meet as well as a SCY meet over the next two weeks. Some last minute NAG record hunting. It would be nice to see some groups of swimmers (age groupers as well as masters) with varying levels of ability and talent take on this training program for a period of time (6 months?), and document the results. I plan on doing this. I've just come back to swimming after a short hiatus, and without a coach to give me specific practices, Im going to be using this method only for the foreseeable future. I was wondering if anyone had any specific log or anything that would show me how to specifically set this whole thing up? Im reading the papers, since I forgot lots of the information. If anyone could help me set some workouts up, it'd be greatly appreciated. Currently training the 50 free, 100 free, 200 free, 100 ***, 200 ***, 200 IM.
  • Yes, you want to work up to 30 25's BUT, that is including two "fails". Starting out your 100 pace 25 yard goal time should be :15, and in the beginning to get more reps, especially if you are a drop dead sprinter, it is OK to have :20 rest, so that would put your interval at :35. So your set would be to swim 25s on the :35 holding :15, don't worry if you miss one on your first four, as it might take a couple to set your pace. THEN keep swimming on that interval until you hit a :16. When you do, you stop and rest one interval, and then start again, swimming 25s on the :35 until you hit another :16, then STOP and rest an interval and then start again - once you hit your third "fail" you stop and swim down, the set is over. It is important to remember the number of 25s you did before your first "fail" AND the total number of 25's you did before your third "fail". Try to work up to 30 25s - but that INCLUDES your two "fails". Once that is done you can drop the interval to :30 OR you can drop your goal time to :14. You would have to know best. In regard for training for the 50, you can do 25's on the :30 as follows -15 yard sprints at your 50 pace then easy swim to the wall. You can't really get a time on these, but a good set would be to start with 8, rest, then 6, rest, then 4.
  • I personally believe in USRPT, and think it can be a great tool for self-coachers. That said, I think so much of a 50 free is start, break-out, and turn, that you'll be hard pressed to maximize your performance in that event without lots of external observation and feedback. If you're self coaching, I would suggest you focus on the 100 & 200 free, and sprinkle in some *** and IM work. I would do this set at every workout: 30 X 25 at 100 free pace on 15 seconds rest If you've been out a while, you probably need to start with a target time of around 17.0 to get enough volume. When you can get beyond 20 without a fail, or can complete all 30 without failing the set, drop your target time a half a second. If you've done a 100 free in 57.something fairly recently, you should be able to get to 14.5 in 2 or 3 months. From there, you may find that you have to start dropping the target time in 1/4 second intervals. I would also do this set at least 3 times a week: 30 X 50 at 200 free pace on 20 seconds rest Even if you're not that concerned about your 200 free race time, the practice doing race quality turns while fatigued will help you close the 100 free better. This set also has some carry-over value for closing the 200 IM. Then you can either sprinkle in some *** or IM work. 100 or 200 *** sets would be similar to sets above. 200 IM is a bit of a tricky event to train for with USPRT. I like the idea of working on individual "transition 50's" (25 fly/25 back, 25 back/25 ***, 25 ***/25 free), but you really have to have a good idea how you split a 200 IM to figure the targets and intervals. Some extra fly work might also be called for, as well, like 25's or 50's at 200 IM race split pace.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Before I can answer that, I have a few questions. How frequently can you train? What are your recent best times for the events? How would you prioritize the events in importance? I can train 7 times a day, but the best is M-F. Honestly I havent gotten a true best time in a while. Im really out of conditioning right now after taking a pretty long break. But my best times before this hiatus were: All in yards: 50 free: 26:30 or something 100 free: 57 mids 100 *** : like 1:12 I know the times aren't that great,w asn;t in exactly peak conditioning then or now. Im gonna be experimenting next 2 weeks with this , and then I have to take a very short hiatus due to some personal reasons, then back at it for the forseeable future. The events that I prioritize the most are 50 free and 100 free. These 2 are the major ones I'm focused on. Im really looking to get in the 21s in the 50 and maybe break 50 in the 100 in the next 2 years. Thanks! Also coachsci.sdsu.edu/.../47GUIDE.pdf Fantastic step by step paper for starting a training program with USRPT.
  • Thank you so much for the help! I feel like if I work on my 100 pace though, my 50 will come down as well. Hopefully I can get some private coaching when its concerning Turns and Starts. What I love about this method is you can actually see progression. Unlike those really long volume practices that you don't see statistic increases as linearly as you do with this method. Your 50 potential will improve with the 100 pace work. And, yes, I find it quite gratifying to be able to gauge progress at every workout. As far as 20 seconds rest on the 25's, I'm going to disagree, and suggest that you'll get more conditioning value out of doing the sets at a slightly slower pace at the recommended 15 second rest interval. If you have to have 20 seconds rest to make the critical mass of distance, you're probably outswimming your true current race pace.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I personally believe in USRPT, and think it can be a great tool for self-coachers. That said, I think so much of a 50 free is start, break-out, and turn, that you'll be hard pressed to maximize your performance in that event without lots of external observation and feedback. If you're self coaching, I would suggest you focus on the 100 & 200 free, and sprinkle in some *** and IM work. I would do this set at every workout: 30 X 25 at 100 free pace on 15 seconds rest If you've been out a while, you probably need to start with a target time of around 17.0 to get enough volume. When you can get beyond 20 without a fail, or can complete all 30 without failing the set, drop your target time a half a second. If you've done a 100 free in 57.something fairly recently, you should be able to get to 14.5 in 2 or 3 months. From there, you may find that you have to start dropping the target time in 1/4 second intervals. You probably need a little extra work on fly as well, 25's and even some 50's at the IM split pace. I would also do this set at least 3 times a week: 30 X 50 at 200 free pace on 20 seconds rest Even if you're not that concerned about your 200 free race time, the practice doing race quality turns while fatigued will help you close the 100 free better. This set also has some carry-over value for closing the 200 IM. Then you can either sprinkle in some *** or IM work. 100 or 200 *** sets would be similar to sets above. 200 IM is a bit of a tricky event to train for with USPRT. I like the idea of working on individual "transition 50's" (25 fly/25 back, 25 back/25 ***, 25 ***/25 free), but you really have to have a good idea how you split a 200 IM to figure the targets and intervals. Some extra fly work might also be called for, as well, like 25's or 50's at 200 IM race split pace. Thank you so much for the help! I feel like if I work on my 100 pace though, my 50 will come down as well. Hopefully I can get some private coaching when its concerning Turns and Starts.Yes, you want to work up to 30 25's BUT, that is including two "fails". Starting out your 100 pace 25 yard goal time should be :15, and in the beginning to get more reps, especially if you are a drop dead sprinter, it is OK to have :20 rest, so that would put your interval at :35. So your set would be to swim 25s on the :35 holding :15, don't worry if you miss one on your first four, as it might take a couple to set your pace. THEN keep swimming on that interval until you hit a :16. When you do, you stop and rest one interval, and then start again, swimming 25s on the :35 until you hit another :16, then STOP and rest an interval and then start again - once you hit your third "fail" you stop and swim down, the set is over. It is important to remember the number of 25s you did before your first "fail" AND the total number of 25's you did before your third "fail". Try to work up to 30 25s - but that INCLUDES your two "fails". Once that is done you can drop the interval to :30 OR you can drop your goal time to :14. You would have to know best. In regard for training for the 50, you can do 25's on the :30 as follows -15 yard sprints at your 50 pace then easy swim to the wall. You can't really get a time on these, but a good set would be to start with 8, rest, then 6, rest, then 4. Thank you as well!! What I love about this method is you can actually see progression. Unlike those really long volume practices that you don't see statistic increases as linearly as you do with this method.
  • I'm gonna try to get a coach that I can get to look at my starts and turns. I wanna see how fast I can improve in a year and a half using this technique. As I am 15 years old, nearing 16, Would you say its reasonable to aim for 100 free 57 mid to 48 high 50 Free 26 low to 21 high 100 ***: 1:15 ( Not much training in this at all) to 1:00/ I realize its impossible to give a straightforward 'this is how much you can lose by this time.' as there are uncontrollable factors, but do you think this is at least possible? As you mentioned, there are a lot of unknown factors. Your goals are lofty, but within the realm of possibility. You may need to do two-a-days to make that much progress. And you're likely to need technique coaching, as well. But if you implement an strict USRPT training regimen and stick to it for a year and a half, you will almost undoubtedly improve your speed substantially.
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    Your 50 potential will improve with the 100 pace work. And, yes, I find it quite gratifying to be able to gauge progress at every workout. As far as 20 seconds rest on the 25's, I'm going to disagree, and suggest that you'll get more conditioning value out of doing the sets at a slightly slower pace at the recommended 15 second rest interval. If you have to have 20 seconds rest to make the critical mass of distance, you're probably outswimming your true current race pace. I'm gonna try to get a coach that I can get to look at my starts and turns. I wanna see how fast I can improve in a year and a half using this technique. As I am 15 years old, nearing 16, Would you say its reasonable to aim for 100 free 57 mid to 48 high 50 Free 26 low to 21 high 100 ***: 1:15 ( Not much training in this at all) to 1:00/ I realize its impossible to give a straightforward 'this is how much you can lose by this time.' as there are uncontrollable factors, but do you think this is at least possible?
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    I was reading more into it and came to the realization I'm gonna need something more accurate than my Garmin Swim. My plan is to return the Garmin Swim and maybe try those vibrating Speedo watches as said before in Hughes thread. Anyone have any experience with the FINIS tempo trainer? Or maybe any other watches that I could set 2 intervals?