I was being sincere about the advice to get out of the way of cruise ships. You do not want a "boat with some speed and maneuverability to intervene". A cruise ship under steam will not give way to a swimmer in the water and getting a boat to intervene and try to wave the ship off only puts more people in the path of disaster. The swimmer and escort craft need to get out of the way.
Rob, with all due respect, this is crazy-talk. A big cruise ship is bearing down on a swimmer, and you think the best plan is for the swimmer to try to swim out of the way, and for the escort craft to also "get out of the way," without helping the swimmer? Did I get that right? Sounds like a good way to get your swimmer run over by a cruise ship.
2) I have not been designated to handle any PR. I am posting out of my love for Masters Swimming in general and for open water swimming.
You are the only member of the "Open Water Task Force" who is engaging with the membership on this topic, so that sort of makes you the de facto PR Guy. I've heard nothing but silence from others, aside from one-way pronouncements. The fact that no one was explicitly designated as the PR Guy/Gal actually seems even worse for USMS. It seems to indicate either that the leadership didn't realize there would be a PR issue, or that they're not confident enough in their decision to defend it under criticism. I'm not sure which is worse.
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www.marathonswimmers.org
Evan,
Thanks for defending me. Much appreciated!
And let me clear up a couple of things that you seem to have misunderstood.
1) I was being sincere about the advice to get out of the way of cruise ships. You do not want a "boat with some speed and maneuverability to intervene". A cruise ship under steam will not give way to a swimmer in the water and getting a boat to intervene and try to wave the ship off only puts more people in the path of disaster. The swimmer and escort craft need to get out of the way.
2) I have not been designated to handle any PR. I am posting out of my love for Masters Swimming in general and for open water swimming. If it sounds like I'm supporting the actions taken by Masters Swimming, well I guess I am. After seeing some of the other options, I believe USMS has made the best of a difficult situation.
If the officials do allow a swimmer to be in immediate danger, then they need to pull the swimmer and get out of the way. This is just common sense.
It is a relief to hear you say this. Thank you for explaining your perspective more precisely.
But unfortunately, this brings us back to the issue of prop guards. In urban waterways where things may happen quickly and unexpectedly, safety vessels need to have full power at their disposal to move quickly. Given the composition of the "Open Water Task Force" (yes, the scare quotes are purposeful), I'm just not convinced that USMS conducted a thorough evaluation of the various safety issues in different open water settings. Liability, yes. Safety, no.
If they had thoroughly evaluated safety issues, then we'd probably be seeing a better effort at defending the decision than having you come on here and tell people to "get out of the way of cruise ships."
It’s really tough for a cruise ship to sneak up on an escort boat and get to a point where ”A big cruise ship is bearing down on a swimmer”.
Let me ask you something: Did the "Open Water Task Force" consult any race directors who could actually give you a knowledgeable perspective on the situation of encountering large ships? Race directors of swims in crowded urban waterways, as opposed to placid inland lakes?
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www.marathonswimmers.org
Did the "Open Water Task Force" consult any race directors
Would these "race directors" encourage the use of more "scare quotes?" Because that just never gets old. And so useful too!
Would these "race directors" encourage the use of more "scare quotes?"
Chris, how's this: I am very happy that the "open water" cable swims you love so much will be unaffected by these changes.
Did I get that right?I see where you aren’t getting it. It’s really tough for a cruise ship to sneak up on an escort boat and get to a point where ”A big cruise ship is bearing down on a swimmer”. The boat captain, the swimmer’s crew and the official observer, should all see the ship from a pretty good distance and alter course to get the swimmer out of harm’s way.
Any captain or race official who can’t get a swimmer out of the way in the 5-10 minutes it takes from spotting the possible danger to the time the ship arrives, is grossly incompetent or negligent and has no business being involved with the race. The race safety officer should cover all of this in the safety briefing.
If the officials do allow a swimmer to be in immediate danger, then they need to pull the swimmer and get out of the way. This is just common sense. But I guess it may not be that common. Once I was a race official on an escorted swim and we had a barge coming down the river towards us, the swimmer’s crew told us to radio the barge captain to tell him to pull over. I informed the crew member that wasn’t going to happen and we needed to get out of the channel and towards shore. We angled the swimmer out of the barges path and 5 minutes later after the barge passed we moved back to the faster water.
Chris, how's this: I am very happy that the "open water" cable swims you love so much will be unaffected by these changes.
"Love so much" is vastly overstating things. It is a workout, nothing more.
Funny how much open water purists seem to disdain what you consider lesser events or athletes. Puddle swims, wetsuits wearers, triathletes: all pretenders. The chip on your shoulder just gets a little tiring after a while.
One thing that struck me in this whole brouhaha is that there are really three distinct categories of open water events when it comes to the escort boats....
This seems like a useful way to think of things, I hope that TPTB can convince/educate the insurance companies (or work with multiple companies) in a similar manner.
Funny how much open water purists seem to disdain what you consider lesser events or athletes. Puddle swims, wetsuits wearers, triathletes: all pretenders. The chip on your shoulder just gets a little tiring after a while.
The martyr complex gets a little tiring after a while, too.
As Ken Classen says, there are different categories of OW events. Each category calls for different safety measures, and possibly different types of insurance. It has nothing to do with one category being better than the other.
For those of us who are interested in Ken's category #2 and #3 events, it is frustrating that USMS did not see fit to include our interests in their decision-making. This frustration is compounded by the fact that the "Open Water Task Force" did not include anyone who has any relevant experience at category #2 and #3 events.
Possibly category #3 events (channel swims) are better off disengaging from USMS altogether. They are different beasts. However, the de-sanctioning of Kingdom Swim in Vermont (a category 2 swim) is, in my view, truly a stain on the legacy of USMS.
Chris Stevenson, it is not surprising you thought the earlier comment by chaos was "a bit much" link], because, by your own admission, you see open water as "a workout, nothing more." You have a narrow perspective, just like the people responsible for these new policies.
I’m curious what the USMS Open water board, task force etc., is thinking going forward? I understand that appears the USMS insurance provider did a fast one and the board scrambled to do what it could for the 2013 season. But does the board think what the insurance provider required acceptable or unacceptable? Moving forward into the 2014 season and beyond what are USMS OW goals going to be regarding this? Speaking as a member/client of USMS the status quo as it now stands is unacceptable. Going forward I hope the USMS OW board feels the same way and starts formulating a new plan and if that involves a new insurance provider so be it.
One thing that struck me in this whole brew haha is that there are really three distinct categories of open water events when it comes to the escort boats.
1. A relatively closed course or courses with where the entire race is always within a couple of hundred years of land and safety personal can safely cover it in non-motorized craft.
2. Courses where the swimmers are primarily escorted by non-motorized craft, but where motorized craft are used for secondary safety for example; to speedily get a swimmer off the race course to avoid a cruise ship ;-) or more likely to quickly ferry them to land based emergency personal. In addition used to warn and intercept other non race involved powered water craft that a race is in progress but generally stay well out of the way of the swimmers. Examples of this kind of race would be the Horsetooth reservoir swim in Colorado or the Kingdom 10-milier in Vermont.
3. Third type of OW event is where the motorized craft is the primary escort to the swimmer. An example would be an English or Catalina channel crossing. The swimmer is so far off shore and conditions could become so rough this is the only safe way to escort the swimmer. Another example would be the race that set this whole thing off the Maui Channel relay.
So it was a category 3 event that caused this entire thing and what makes it sad is it’s the least participated in category by USMS and most other open water events. I think the distinction is clear and something many of the race directors have been trying to convey to the USMS powers that be.
