This seems like a useful way to think of things, I hope that TPTB can convince/educate the insurance companies (or work with multiple companies) in a similar manner.
Hope isn’t quite enough to get us through this season or help us plan for the next.... so we are moving forward. I’m happy to be involved with CIBBOWS... a group that is supportive of a full range of OW opportunities from entry level to the extreme.
Chris Stevenson, it is not surprising you thought the earlier comment by chaos was "a bit much" link], because, by your own admission, you see open water as "a workout, nothing more." You have a narrow perspective, just like the people responsible for these new policies.
Um, no. I said that I view cable swims in that manner.
But I'll freely admit that while I have done a couple dozen OW swims over my lifetime -- in various bodies of water -- they don't really mean that much to me *personally.* I enjoy them but if I was told today that I'll never swim one again I would just shrug, be a little sad, and then move on.
That doesn't mean I don't value them for others for whom they mean a lot more. For example while I don't get all that jazzed about cable swims, I think they are especially valuable for those who are new to the sport and who struggle with open water anxiety. Swimming next to a cable in calm conditions might be a good first baby step to more challenging events. Its an attitude you might want to consider before invoking your scare quotes again.
I freely admit that I do not have the OW experience to help set policy and I don't believe I have ever represented myself in this manner. But unlike you I do think USMS has made a good faith effort in a bad situation to continue OW swimming in the organization in the short term. And I believe I am in a position to evaluate that effort, given that my LMSC chair was on the Task Force and my wife is on the OW committee.
Is it a perfect solution? Obviously not and I'm sure there will be efforts to improve upon it in the future. But your pouting and "cheap shots" are not very useful to that effort.
... they don't really mean that much to me *personally.* I enjoy them but if I was told today that I'll never swim one again I would just shrug, be a little sad, and then move on.I feel the same way about breaststroke.
Swimming next to a cable in calm conditions might be a good first baby step to more challenging events.
Totally agree. The problem is, many of these more challenging events will cease to exist unless they can find alternative insurance. USMS, given its size, would have had great negotiating power if keeping these events had been a priority. By all appearances, it was not a priority. If USMS had a genuine commitment to open water swimming, then I'd think they would be interested in keeping the swimmers who want to graduate beyond cable swims "in the fold."
But unlike you I do think USMS has made a good faith effort in a bad situation to continue OW swimming in the organization in the short term. And I believe I am in a position to evaluate that effort, given that my LMSC chair was on the Task Force and my wife is on the OW committee.
An alternative interpretation is that your position makes you blind to the shortcomings in the effort. If USMS really plans to make a good faith effort at improving their approach to open water, they would do well to view my comments here as reasoned criticism, not "pouting," and will realize that I'm far from alone in my views.
If USMS really plans to make a good faith effort at improving their approach to open water, they would do well to view my comments here as reasoned criticism...Evan,
Just a couple of observations.
1) I think your reasoned criticisms might gain a little more traction if they were accompanied by viable reasoned solutions.
2) For better or worse a good number of USMS leadership does not closely follow criticism reasoned or otherwise in social media. So discussion forum posts aren’t really the best method of attempting to influencing policy.
If you really want to be heard, then deal directly with the Open Water Compliance Coordinator, Open Water Committee, Long Distance Committee, local leadership or the Executive Director. And, if you really want to be involved in helping USMS make a good faith effort in improving our approach to open water swimming, then get involved. Help answer the question; given the constraints placed on our events by insurance requirements, what do our event directors, open water committee, local volunteers and the board need to accomplish this year to improve our approach to open water swimming?
No, I believe at this point, most people see your churlish criticisms as whining and pouting.
(Fixed your blue font.)
Me, churlish? Quite possibly! But not wrong.
Let's do a multiple-choice quiz. Which of the following describes my aims in this thread?
(a) Being sensitive to the egos of USMS leadership.
(b) Defending the status quo.
(c) Campaigning for political office with USMS.
(d) Advocating, persuading, and raising awareness on behalf of an interest group that was not well represented in the crafting of new OWS guidelines by USMS.
(Hint: Only one answer is correct!)
In my observation, subtlety is not so effective in dealing with insular organizations.
An alternative interpretation is that your position makes you blind to the shortcomings in the effort. If USMS really plans to make a good faith effort at improving their approach to open water, they would do well to view my comments here as reasoned criticism, not "pouting," and will realize that I'm far from alone in my views.
Fair enough, though one could argue that since I am not as passionate about OW then I am more objective in evaluating the *level* of their efforts. I readily admit I don't have the expertise to evaluate their efforts on their merits. I do not believe that the people involved in the decision were nearly as inexperienced as I, however.
I would add that (IMO of course) Ken Classen set a good bar for constructive criticism in his last post with respect to tone and being respectful of the hard work that many have put into this.
I echo Rob's comments about the scope of forum posts: do not assume that TPTB will read these comments. It can be a nice place to debate issues and refine positions interactively, but ultimately you can't assume that the people here on the forum are representative of either USMS administration or the membership as a whole. (I would venture to say that the same is true for the Marathon Swimming forum.)
...view my comments here as reasoned criticism, not "pouting," and will realize that I'm far from alone in my views.No, I believe at this point, most people see your churlish criticisms as whining and pouting.
Just a couple of observations.
1) I think your reasoned criticisms might gain a little more traction if they were accompanied by viable reasoned solutions.
2) For better or worse a good number of USMS leadership does not closely follow criticism reasoned or otherwise in social media. So discussion forum posts aren’t really the best method of attempting to influencing policy.
If you really want to be heard, then deal directly with the Open Water Compliance Coordinator, Open Water Committee, Long Distance Committee, local leadership or the Executive Director. And, if you really want to be involved in helping USMS make a good faith effort in improving our approach to open water swimming, then get involved. Help answer the question; given the constraints placed on our events by insurance requirements, what do our event directors, open water committee, local volunteers and the board need to accomplish this year to improve our approach to open water swimming?
Rob, this all sounds very reasonable and level-headed. I would take your advice more seriously if you hadn't felt the need to insult me behind an alias account ('irishpolarbear') that you apparently forgot has already been outed:
forums.usms.org/showthread.php
Seems not very past-presidential of you to resort to such immature tactics.
No, I believe at this point, most people see your churlish criticisms as whining and pouting.
As long as we are now speaking for most people, I think I can say with the authority of most OW swimmers I know that evmo has been dead on in much of this criticism.
Deliberately misinterpreting posts in a response is what I call churlish....
