Change Your Latitude - 57* North Open Water Challenge

I don’t discount the human body and mind’s capacity to condition themselves to endure thermal stress FWIW, i find for me that the physical aspects are overrated and the cognitive aspects highly underrated. swimmer A without a wetsuit is much harder to spot on the bottom than swimmer B who, with wetsuit, will remain floating on the surface under most circumstances. FWIW, the density of an average adult is 1.01 g/ml but I do not not know how the lungs fit into that figure. Seawater in the mid 50's is 1.03 g/ml. This makes the average adult a floater, with a 180 lb version being 3.5 lbs positively buoyant. My guess is that the typical cold-acclimated skin swimmer is even more buoyant. The rub comes in figuring out a way for organizers who are largely responsible for participant safety, to differentiate between those who are genuinely cold-acclimated and those who just imagine themselves to be That is not an easy task. I agree totally. But I would go further. I think that it is simply not possible for an event organization to substantively asses this, and I second what Evmo says in this regard. This will be a bit off topic, sorry, but the corporate approach that that OW is heading in is a major flaw for which the sport (and swimmers) will suffer. The paradigm must be established, perhaps through the long road of precedent, that the swimmer is ultimately legally responsible for his/her safety and life. This thread is not the place to start such a discussion, of course, so if someone wants to respond, please PM me directly or start a new thread on this topic. seems pretty nutso to me. Have to admit though, you don’t write like a nut. for all of 2011, only 3 of my swims were above 60 F, most were in the 40's a few in the mid 30's. maybe I am but hide it too well :) What else do we need to do to entice you and your kind to Change Your Latitude in Sitka-by-the-Sea? We are idiosyncratic in so many ways, I can only speak for myself. You might be surprised to know that I heartily vote in favor of a rule requiring wetsuits given that your goals are as you stated: 1) promoting OW swimming by locals, 2) bringing in out-of-towners, and 3) creating a family event. As I tried to explain before, mandating wetsuits will not likely reduce the event's risk for cold-related medical emergencies: 57 F is extreme for a wetsuited non-acclimated pool swimmer. The key to reducing that is to assure that all swimmers, regardless of their attire, are swimming well within their thermal confidence zone. Your 10k is a geographic based out-and-back course. That is a huge plus in my book, as is the 'wilderness' setting/scenery. For out and backs, there is the not so simple issue of keeping outbound and inbound swimmers from colliding, e.g LJRS Gatorman. If it were 1 or more laps around buoys, that would make it a no go for me. The mandated wetsuit makes it a no go too. As you probably know, Dr. Evmo is famous for his multiple stellar marathon swim performances in 2011, and Dr. Chaos for his incredible 2010 season and for founding the epic multiday 8 Bridges Swim. I've never met either of them in person, but they undoubtedly have a much deeper experience base to draw upon than i do. hope this is helpful in some way, and that you do not take it to be argumentative. I'm looking forward to hearing an announcement for the 1st Annual Sitka Swim Week, featuring a dozen swims in mountain lakes and tidal waters, orcas not included!

Your evidence on the existence of a cold-acclimated skin cohort is compelling. But will they travel to Alaska? Perhaps I’ve forgotten my own history, as I swam the Peaks to Portland race a couple of times in the late ‘80’s and nobody wore wetsuits. But temps were low 60’s, not low 50’s, and distance was more like Nubble Light Challenge--a mere 2.4 miles. Perhaps we (CYL 57dN) can adopt a policy similar to what they have at Nubble, whereas, “exceptions will be granted only to individuals who have proven experience (satisfactory to the race staff) with swimming in cold water races (below 60 degrees) without a wetsuit. Wetsuit waiver requests must be submitted to the Race Director at least ten days prior to the event." I sure hate the thought of excluding anyone from this magnificent event if they can provide sufficient evidence that their participation does not present an unreasonable risk to their personal safety, the safety of others, or the goals that motivate our efforts. I don’t know if I can arrange for a dozen swims on either side of the CYL event, but Sitka is blessed with an abundance of hiking trails, most along, within sight of or leading to some breathtaking body of water. Last year I led a group of swim participants to Heart Lake, and a few of us took the plunge—no wetsuits! I will make sure this aspect of the event is front and center on our developing website. Are we making progress?

"I did a bit of google'n regarding furtherest north ... is that US or Worldwide? I became distracted by Indigo Lake (and the numerous others. do any of the craters on Kruzof Island hold water?). en.wikipedia.org/.../Indigo_Lake Wow! There's a boatload of opportunities that rival Oregon's! If I were to make it to Sitka for any reason, a swim in Indigo would be a must :) how about a Hike-Paddle-Swim event starting in Bear Cove on day 2?" Indigo Lake is to the interior of Baranof Island--not easily accessible at all. I've been near the lake goat hunting with my Dad and brother long ago, and can't fathom the idea of swimming in it. The lake was named by Les Yaw and my great uncle, Jack Calvin. Kruzof Island forms the North side of Sitka Sound and on it is Mt. Edgecombe--also known as sister to Mt. Fuji. There is a must-do 6.5 mile trail up to the crater rim, but no lake inside. Nearby St. Lazaria Island is ostensibly known at part of the blown-off top of Mt. Edgecombe and is an amazing bird rookery. In the center of the island is an olympic-sized tidal pool with an underwater passageway. St. Lazaria is a great family destination and a fine, though short, swim--you also need to be careful of the bird bombs. alaskamaritime.fws.gov/.../Gulf-StLazaria.htm Kruzof Island also served as the starting point for Claudia Rose's 8-mile skin swim across Sitka Sound a few years back--which led to the SSAS and now CYL-57dN. I could go on and on about Kruzof Island, but that would be starting to get more off-topic than may be allowed. If you are after a very cool clearwater swim, but closer to town, I'd send you to Medvejie Lake, which is just upstream from the hatchery on Silver Bay. en.wikipedia.org/.../Medvejie_Lake The crystal clear water of Medvegie reminds me of Crater Lake in Oregon--but with fewer people--so a genuine "skin" swim would be entirely appropriate, if you could handle the frigid water temp. Depending on enrollment numbers in CYL, we might be able to arrange a tour of the hatchery and hike to Medvejie as a group.

i am still more than a little confused as to why scheduling this swim the same weekend as the pennock swim was a good idea? pennock seems to be traditionally scheduled the second weekend in august i recommend sitka avoid the conflict for future events - it would be interesting to see participants do both

i am still more than a little confused as to why scheduling this swim the same weekend as the pennock swim was a good idea? pennock seems to be traditionally scheduled the second weekend in august i recommend sitka avoid the conflict for future events - it would be interesting to see participants do both Each month there are a limited number of days with good tides, sometimes there are really no good tides during a month. The Sitka and Pennock swims will probably continue to hold their events at the same time due to that simple lunar rule. If you are thinking that maybe just holding them on different days of the weekend, let me enlighten. Sitka is a least 18 hours away from ketchikan by ferry, assuming the ferry schedule cooperates. The plane ride is only 40 minutes, but the cost is in the neighborhood of 350.00 and you have to hope the airline schedule cooperates. As for any of the other issues that have been brought up, it will get sorted in time. Willie

Geog, You are correct. The dates were different but no one did both races. That was one factor we had in mind when we set the date without considering what dates Pennock might select. However, the previous Sitka swims were not nearly as well publicized as they will be this year and in future years. This usms online disscussion has opened the Sitka swim committee's eyes quite a bit--and you will probably see some changes to this year's policies as a result. We are in deliberation about that now. I do not know if a closer look at the tides and our schedule will allow us to revise the date. Hearing from more people who want to do both races would be very very helpful at this stage.

Thanks grumpy - I did your swim the same year claudia rose did both pennock and sitka. i found ketchikan a very enjoyable destination swim. btw - i swam pennock the day after a san francisco sharkfest and have managed some ridiculous doubles in a weekend, i.e. swim - drive / fly - swim. though my thought is pennock one weekend and sitka the next! it does not ever seem cheap / reasonable to get to alaska from anywhere in the U.S. except seattle. hope to complete both swims in the not so distant future.

though my thought is pennock one weekend and sitka the next! FWIW, Pennock was on Aug 7th and Sitka on Aug 14th in 2011, yet published results indicate no one swam both.

Kris - flexibility is always inspiring! backing up a bit .... could go on and on about Kruzof Island, but that would be starting to get more off-topic than may be allowed. hmmm. i think the scope is up to the originating poster. Along those lines though, sorry about getting the race announcement off to a divisive start (wetsuits), and further distractions about satellite swims. There are so many great swims to be done around Sitka that a 1st Annual Sitka Swim Week would seem quite realistic, especially if the weather cooperated! Perhaps daily 5k sea 'races' in the morning and hike/swims in the afternoon, and a major event day with the 10k. August daylight is pretty long up there, maybe 15 or 16 hours of daylight? Also I didn't mean to imply 2012 or to put you on the spot.

Lake list expanded a bit over the weekend. Medvejie as you mentioned would be a must. Indigo is another 1.5 miles beyond, mostly off trail but I understand locals do in fact hike that route. Sitting above Medvejie is the easier hike/swim of Bear Lake and its little cousin. Then there is 870ft deep Redoubt Lake. Sounds fascinating and picturesque. Makes me think of 745ft deep Loch Ness in Scotland :) It'd be difficult to do some of these swims in the context of someone else (or entity) assuming liability unless a float plane was arranged (huge expense). They are all swims I'd be interesting in doing informally or on my own. Blue Lake has been studied a fair amount including year-round daily water temperature data. Surface water temps (2 ft depth I think) in the months of July Aug and Sept were all above 50 F for 2008 and 55 to 60 F in 2005. Medvejie and Redoubt are similar in elevation to Blue Lake, Bear and Indigo are higher. Blue Lake Study PDF Interactive map centered on Bear Lake, showing Indigo, Medvejie and Blue: www.mappingsupport.com/.../gmap4.php Bear Lake in early September farm6.staticflickr.com/.../5368439613_c705d9d50b_z.jpg Indigo Lake in late July farm1.staticflickr.com/.../248501012_ca88c1341b_z.jpg Redoubt Lake in early May farm4.staticflickr.com/.../5774594495_7ebe742fe3_z.jpg Lakes of Baranof Island here: flickr.com/photos/northtoalaska/sets Medvejie Lake early August www.nawwal.org/.../12988a.jpg