Change Your Latitude - 57* North Open Water Challenge

One other thing I would love to hear from people about is whether or not I have my info correct on this being the furthest north sanctioned swim. I know we don't actually have our sanction yet, still working on final details on some of the paperwork, and I am assuming that we will be sanctioned as the swim was sanctioned last year. I see on the US Open Water Swimming calendar that at least in the last couple of years there's been an OW swim at North Pole. Isn't that up there by Fairbanks, significantly "north-er" than Sitka!

First of all, kudos to you both for wanting to organize an event up there. Regardless of my feelings about wetsuits, I think it's great for the sport of open-water swimming to have an opportunity in Sitka, Alaska (10K, especially!). And I admire your focus on safety. I'm still wondering how you will obtain a USMS sanction with a wetsuit requirement. Is that even possible? Wouldn't a USMS-sanctioned open water event need to follow USMS guidelines for OW events - i.e., separate divisions, with "skin" being the default? Possibly I'm wrong about that. Either way, I'm curious to know. One similarly thermally challenging event is the Nubble Light Challenge in Maine -- but that's only 2.4 miles, and it's sanctioned by USAT, not USMS. They mandate wetsuits if the water is below 58F (with exceptions granted on an individual basis). Cold is subjective. People's tolerance for it varies - and it can be developed, just like any other skill. Some people swim quite comfortably in the 50s F, while others may need a wetsuit even in 68-degree Elk Lake, Oregon, right Kris? ;-) I guess what it comes down to is, do you trust swimmers' ability to make that decision for themselves? And do you trust the event's safety apparatus to come through if there's a problem? I understand where you're coming from as a safety-minded race director. From the swimmer's perspective, though, a "wetsuit mandate" signifies that the organizers think they know me (and my cold tolerance) better than I know myself. As much as I'd love to visit Sitka, that's a deal-breaker for me. Separate divisions, separate awards. 1-hour qualifying swim for skin entrants. Those are my :2cents:

Geog and others, I don’t discount the human body and mind’s capacity to condition themselves to endure thermal stress, nor do I find fault with your argument as stated—though I must point out that swimmer A without a wetsuit is much harder to spot on the bottom than swimmer B who, with wetsuit, will remain floating on the surface under most circumstances. ;-) The rub comes in figuring out a way for organizers who are largely responsible for participant safety, to differentiate between those who are genuinely cold-acclimated and those who just imagine themselves to be—as in the case of our determined young competitor in SSAS two years back. We don’t want to limit participation in our event unless we have extremely good justification. Maybe my justification is not as obvious as I had imagined. And, our discussion leads me to wonder if there are more people than I imagined who would actually want to do this event without a wetsuit—seems pretty nutso to me. Have to admit though, you don’t write like a nut. I suppose the best way to be reasonably assured we are only allowing genuine cold-acclimated skin swimmers to participate is asking for a signed statement indicating that they have successfully completed other events under similar temperature and sea conditions—and with as strong a liability waiver as we can concoct. Your policy recommendations are very reasonable and I don’t believe the race committee would have any problem adopting them. What else do we need to do to entice you and your kind to Change Your Latitude in Sitka-by-the-Sea? For the record, I believe Elk Lake was in the low 60's last year with coach's strong recommendation to consider using a wetsuit. I was one of the few who did the 5K sans wetsuit, reminding me once again why I like my wetsuit so much......

For the record, I believe Elk Lake was in the low 60's last year with coach's strong recommendation to consider using a wetsuit. I was one of the few who did the 5K sans wetsuit, reminding me once again why I like my wetsuit so much...... For the record, I was speaking of the 2010 version of the Elk Lake swims, when I had the pleasure of swimming next to/behind/ahead of/around you in the 5K. :) I believe Bob reported a water temp of 67-68 that day.

sorry for the confusion. hopefully this will make it more clear. i tend to write in a dry tone, but this is meant as a friendly email :) Swimmer A is well cold-acclimated and swims without a wetsuit. Swimmer B is not cold-acclimated and swims with a wetsuit. Which is more prone to a cold-related medical emergency? On average I think B is more prone for a 57F swim (57F would be mild for a cold-acclimated skin swimmer, yet would be extreme for a non-acclimated pool swimmer). A regulation that requires wetsuits would dissuade well-acclimated skin swimmers from applying, thereby increasing the number of non-acclimated wetsuit swimmers, thereby increasing the event's risk of confronting cold-related medical emergencies. To reduce the risk of cold-related medical emergencies, one must somehow assure that all swimmers are swimming within X-percent of their thermal ability regardless of whether they swim skin or wetsuit. Perhaps this means simply asking swimmers not to apply if the swim is outside their thermal comfort zone for their chosen attire (use training swims to push/test thermal envelopes). If I remember correctly, peer reviewed papers that studied the thermal benefits of wetsuits on humans considered X millimeters of neoprene to be equal in terms of heat transfer to 3X millimeters of fat. According to those numbers, a 1/4" layer of body fat is equal to a 2 mm layer of neoprene. That is not a very impressive perspective on the thermal effectiveness of wetsuits. Wearing a wetsuit of course has advantages. For certain swimmers, wetsuits reduce anxiety, which is a huge risk factor when things go south. As a PFD, a wetsuit is hard to beat for OW, though I have seen triathletes who still sink even in a full body wetsuit. Some wetsuits reduce the effort required to swim (not all, for example a 5 mm scuba wetsuit). By reducing the effort, the swimmer might possibly have more energy reserves for dealing with non-cold related emergencies. And of course there is the potential for a placebo effect if the swimmer thinks the wetsuit is more effective than it actually is - that is, the benefit of a positive attitude even if it is artificially propped up. Wetsuits make the swimmer much less visible, but this can be overcome by wearing a brightly colored garment on top, such as a long sleeve synthetic compression shirt, or such as a dive skin. How all this balances out is hard to say. Tough call in my opinion. Two regulations that I think would make any OW event safer are 1) disallow sign ups on event-day and 2) a no-questions-asked policy of full refund if the swimmer shows up but decides not to swim for any reason, however a no show = no refund. again, i tend to write in a dry tone, but this is meant as a friendly email :) hope this helps. cold is cool! (motto of the acclimated)

And, our discussion leads me to wonder if there are more people than I imagined who would actually want to do this event without a wetsuit—seems pretty nutso to me. Have to admit though, you don’t write like a nut. I suppose the best way to be reasonably assured we are only allowing genuine cold-acclimated skin swimmers to participate is asking for a signed statement indicating that they have successfully completed other events under similar temperature and sea conditions—and with as strong a liability waiver as we can concoct. see link for the 2010 Veterans Day (nov6) 5k at Coney Island: cibbows.org/.../2010VDresults.pdf

I'm looking forward to hearing an announcement for the 1st Annual Sitka Swim Week, featuring a dozen swims in mountain lakes and tidal waters, orcas not included! YES! :) (I swim 50 deg to 50 deg in Lake Michigan, no wetsuit. Lots of us out here! :) )

For the record, I will speak of the 2010 version of the 3-day Elk Lake swim festival, when I had the pleasure of swimming behind most of you in the 500, 1000, 1500, 3000, and 5000 Geog, sorry we missed each other at Elk Lake. E=H20 was also there, come to think of it. Maybe I'll show up again one of these years. FWIW, i find for me that the physical aspects are overrated and the cognitive aspects highly underrated. Indeed. It must be far more common that people underestimate their abilities in this domain than overestimate them. Nobody is born a cold-water swimmer. It's a process that begins with a question: Could I? One baby-step at a time, we find that yes, we can. And it's a profound discovery. When you mandate neoprene, you short-circuit the entire process before the first question is even asked. (Pardon the :soapbox:) I swim 50 deg to 50 deg in Lake Michigan, no wetsuit. Lots of us out here! :) ) Video evidence: chicagotonight.wttw.com/.../swimming-promontory-point Even Sitka Sound is warmer than Lake Michigan this time of year!

see link for the 2010 Veterans Day (nov6) 5k at Coney Island: cibbows.org/.../2010VDresults.pdf CIBBOWS knows how to show a little skin!

For the record, I was speaking of the 2010 version of the Elk Lake swims, when I had the pleasure of swimming next to/behind/ahead of/around you in the 5K. :) I believe Bob reported a water temp of 67-68 that day.For the record, I will speak of the 2010 version of the 3-day Elk Lake swim festival, when I had the pleasure of swimming behind most of you in the 500, 1000, 1500, 3000, and 5000.