Big Shoulders 2009

It should be noted that Andy was 2nd male, and 3rd overall finisher this year in the 10K 0W Championship. True. No offense to anyone (I'm not a great swimmer myself), but the 10k field wasn't even remotely as strong as it was in Chicago.

True. No offense to anyone (I'm not a great swimmer myself), but the 10k field wasn't even remotely as strong as it was in Chicago. I definitely agree with this. Just trying to balance out the results I posted early. However, a 5K race is a completely different animal than a 10K (and a 5K is a different animal than a 1500).

Not that impressive of a 400 pool time compared to the 5k time. Or at least that is what I am getting from the posts here. For someone who swam this OW, how were the conditions? VIII FINA WORLD MASTERS CHAMPIONSHIPS – MUNICH GER - JULY 29- AUG 4 2000 OPEN WATER MEN AGE 40-44 1 Bain, Brian GBR 0h 57:13.31 2 Keck, Mike USA 0h 57:13.34 3 Seguiti, Stefano ITA 0h 58:00.35 4 Mack, Tom USA 0h 58:22.77 5 Seibt, Andreas USA 0h 59:24.66 6 Zeijpveld, Otto NED 1h 00:16.72 Same meet. M E N -- 40-44 -- 400 M. FREE ********************************** 1 DANIEL MACHEK CZE 04:21.56 2 MIKE KECK USA 04:27.39 3 ANDREAS SEIBT USA 04:33.76 4 STEFAN B”KER GER 04:33.91 5 RICHARD POWERS GBR 04:37.67

Not that impressive of a 400 pool time compared to the 5k time. Or at least that is what I am getting from the posts here. For someone who swam this OW, how were the conditions? VIII FINA WORLD MASTERS CHAMPIONSHIPS – MUNICH GER - JULY 29- AUG 4 2000 OPEN WATER MEN AGE 40-44 1 Bain, Brian GBR 0h 57:13.31 2 Keck, Mike USA 0h 57:13.34 3 Seguiti, Stefano ITA 0h 58:00.35 4 Mack, Tom USA 0h 58:22.77 5 Seibt, Andreas USA 0h 59:24.66 6 Zeijpveld, Otto NED 1h 00:16.72 Same meet. M E N -- 40-44 -- 400 M. FREE ********************************** 1 DANIEL MACHEK CZE 04:21.56 2 MIKE KECK USA 04:27.39 3 ANDREAS SEIBT USA 04:33.76 4 STEFAN B”KER GER 04:33.91 5 RICHARD POWERS GBR 04:37.67 The data is 9 years old but either way it is worth looking at. In scnario 400 free he 4.5% slower than the leaders in the 5K he is 3.8% slower than the leaders. Get me a 1500 and I bet the results are more like 4.2% slower. I dont think anyone would call this variance abnormal. We all agree there are people who are better suited for the OW. But the BS results do not fall with any kind of normal variance.

The data is 9 years old but either way it is worth looking at. In scnario 400 free he 4.5% slower than the leaders in the 5K he is 3.8% slower than the leaders. Get me a 1500 and I bet the results are more like 4.2% slower. I dont think anyone would call this variance abnormal. We all agree there are people who are better suited for the OW. But the BS results do not fall with any kind of normal variance. ...not to mention he was swimming against a strong field of swimmers from northwestern, a fmr world champ, etc...

Next year the people running this should take a better approach to dispel confusion.

I share mixed feelings about all this stuff. There is so much that could be human mistakes or technology. I guess that is the risk you take in any race. I do know that they had people for each cap color to write down times with your arm number. So between that and the chip could be just a little harder to beat the system. But If some one knows how please let me know so I can be in on it next year:) There was Chris who helped with a few things through email thank you your a big help.Do I think some aspects of the race could be run better yes, think people were confused about so much.I was frustrated that for such a well know race that it was so confusing. That is what i really liked about Madison WI open water swim every booth they told you were to go next very well organized.All in all it was nice the water was calm. I am not us to swimming in breakers of Lake Michigan. I live up close to WI, IL boarder so out there in lake Michigan there are no breakers so I was expecting the worst. Every few feet you get pound by waves. So in the end there are good and bad at every race. Will do it next year for sure so not that bad.:)

I think the next time someone beats me I will send them a list of 23 obligatory questions. Since most everyone on this forum has beaten me, expect emails soon for you to answer. I'm sending out my emails as well. Since we have public blogs, no one can question us (or be surprised when I beat you). I can't understand how there is not sufficient officiating at an OW national championship. Pool swimmers have S&T officials everywhere judging everything. Hence, Chris Stevenson's DQ after setting a WR at Indy Nats.

I'm sending out my emails as well. Since we have public blogs, no one can question us (or be surprised when I beat you). Big talker you are. I just looked at your 2008 RSA results in a B70 and my 2009 results in a Pro and here's the results, smart guy... You still won. Dang it, this is not my day.

Based on the hullabaloo here, officiating of OW needs to be addressed by USMS for future open water National Championships in both bids submitted and OW rules. It's addressed. (Give the rules people and the bid-evaluation people at least a little credit.) Rule 303.7 requires referees for all USMS-sanctioned OW events. For events designated as National Championships, Rule 305.7.3.B specifically requires a turn judge. Big Shoulders has been an OW National Championship more than once in the last ten years; there's no reason to doubt that the race director knows these rules. Perhaps the more pertinent rule at this point, however, is Rule 305.7.7, "Protests": Any protest arising from a competition shall be made to the meet director within 30 minutes after the release of results for an open water event or 14 days after the release of results for a postal event. If the protest is not resolved, the protester may appeal in writing within 10 days for final adjudication to the USMS Open Water and Long Distance chair, whose decision shall then be binding on all parties.