Times for 50m freestyle (avg->good->great)?

But when you say "I don't want anyone to think that I feel "beginner" is a dig or negative opinion of someone" -- read the post just below yours, and imagine how someone who has been training and working hard for all of those years will feel to be called a beginner. And when you say, "When i see people in my age group going 30+ in a 50free the first thing on my mind is that they haven't trained enough to step from beginner to average" again, I think it would be hard for such a person not to feel insulted (i.e., that they just haven't worked hard enough). It's great that you started early enough and had enough natural athletic ability to swim so fast after only 4 weeks of training. But that is not true of most people, and frankly, it's comments like yours that make people think that Masters (or this discussion board) is only for top competitive swimmers. I'm saying this not because I want to start an argument (I don't), but because I think you must not be aware of the vast number of people who have been swimming and working hard for many years without achieving your speeds. I think you're also not aware of how elitist your comments sound. I don't think you intended them that way, but you're not representing the majority of Masters' swimmers experiences. I understand what you're saying. Makes sense. Perhaps it is a bit elitist based on what I named the "categories". Call it beginner, or novice, or group C,D,E, or F if it sounds better. To classify times though, some people are classified in lower groups than others. Despite perhaps years of hard work, they may not make what I or others consider average. I'm not sure you can fix this perception of lower classification while still making classifications however broad? No matter what time i picked for the threshold, someone wouldn't like it... but the OP wanted 3 groups. As far as not representing majority... subjective opinion was asked for a second time after swimosaur produced a more objective look. >30 seconds for 30 year old men is, I feel, a broad range for beginner... and thats what OP asked for. :)

But when you say "I don't want anyone to think that I feel "beginner" is a dig or negative opinion of someone" -- read the post just below yours, and imagine how someone who has been training and working hard for all of those years will feel to be called a beginner. And when you say, "When i see people in my age group going 30+ in a 50free the first thing on my mind is that they haven't trained enough to step from beginner to average" again, I think it would be hard for such a person not to feel insulted (i.e., that they just haven't worked hard enough). It's great that you started early enough and had enough natural athletic ability to swim so fast after only 4 weeks of training. But that is not true of most people, and frankly, it's comments like yours that make people think that Masters (or this discussion board) is only for top competitive swimmers. I'm saying this not because I want to start an argument (I don't), but because I think you must not be aware of the vast number of people who have been swimming and working hard for many years without achieving your speeds. I think you're also not aware of how elitist your comments sound. I don't think you intended them that way, but you're not representing the majority of Masters' swimmers experiences. I understand what you're saying. Makes sense. Perhaps it is a bit elitist based on what I named the "categories". Call it beginner, or novice, or group C,D,E, or F if it sounds better. To classify times though, some people are classified in lower groups than others. Despite perhaps years of hard work, they may not make what I or others consider average. I'm not sure you can fix this perception of lower classification while still making classifications however broad? No matter what time i picked for the threshold, someone wouldn't like it... but the OP wanted 3 groups. As far as not representing majority... subjective opinion was asked for a second time after swimosaur produced a more objective look. >30 seconds for 30 year old men is, I feel, a broad range for beginner... and thats what OP asked for. :)