Does swimming "inform" muscle growth? A dryland/weights q.

Thanks guys, this is all very useful information! To now take it one step further (and this may be difficult), any ideas on a useful ratio of water time to weight time, and what to *do* in the water? I know this is trying to select out for a minor side benefit of your sport, so maybe it's impossible, but you've been so helpful thus far, figured I'd give it a shot. To recap, my current approach is simple 1:1 weight day/water day alternation, and on water days I'm just going for all out sprints for maximum distance in two of the four strokes, looking to increase distance each time, ala killer sets in weights. Your input is very much appreciated!

Thanks guys, this is all very useful information! To now take it one step further (and this may be difficult), any ideas on a useful ratio of water time to weight time, and what to *do* in the water? I know this is trying to select out for a minor side benefit of your sport, so maybe it's impossible, but you've been so helpful thus far, figured I'd give it a shot. To recap, my current approach is simple 1:1 weight day/water day alternation, and on water days I'm just going for all out sprints for maximum distance in two of the four strokes, looking to increase distance each time, ala killer sets in weights. Your input is very much appreciated! I don't think you read what Wolf wrote. He said, with emphasis, all other factors equal you will see the following differences. But all other factors are not equal. Like, food. A lot of swimmers who also lift weights find that pool time makes them hungrier and/or makes them slightly fatter (some experience the opposite effect). Also, notice how one of the people in Paul's hypothetical is doing half as much stuff. There are a ton of things this person could be doing with the extra time. If you want to be lean, running might be better use of your time than swimming, from what a lot of people say. Then again, that might not work for you individually. I think you have come here with some stupid idea about how swimming is totally the key to getting the body of your dreams. It's actually going to have a marginal effect compared to targeted strength training and diet. You say you've been lifting weights super hard since your last pointless thread, but you posted the exact same photo of what you look like. So where's your progress? How much stronger are you now than you were then? What's your plan? Let me guess: nowhere, not at all, and "I dunno, but Jazz Hands is mean, so he must be wrong."

Here's some proof that swimming and lifting together do not necessarily make you look like Michael Phelps. I've been swimming competitively for 18 years, and lifting weights for 5 years. Here's a picture of me: http://i.imgur.com/uITwD.jpg (I'm on the right.) Oh god! What has happened to my body? Do you realize that my head used to be normal-shaped?

Swimshark, thank you, narrowing in on my question. But this is why I should have specified same relative genetics. Put another way- the same person spends a year doing each of the above. Will the swimming affect the muscle mass gained? You'll agree with me that anyone who lifts hard will gain some muscle. I'm just trying to deduce if, regardless of genetics, there will be a "sway" because of sprinting. As a non-sprinter, I'm not sure. And yet we mostly train sprinting. My sister is one of those with great muscle tone and almost not fat. But in swimming she is a distance one (doesn't compete but does train and swim in the Ironnman). I compete in distance and do not have the muscle tone my sister does. I don't bike and run like she does but I do lift weights. In fact for 3 weeks I was out of swimming due to an ankle sprain and all I did was lift weights and "swim" using stretch cords. Does that help at all?

I wish I really understood what you are trying to accomplish rather than just asking hypothetical questions. While you may not like the 'tone' of Jazz Hands' posts, he does know what he is talking about when it comes to weight training, muscle hypertrophy and sprinting. The problem is Jazz Hands is too busy with put downs and s*** talking to be a constructive addition to this conversation. That's okay though, I plan to keep posting and dealing with the friendlies on here while he can scream as loud as he wants. That's the beauty of a forum, our access is equal. Speaking of which, I find it funny looking through his old posts that he seems to get into it with a lot of people. Anatagonism runs deep with this one, I guess. Here's what I was asking, perhaps it should be directed to those like Slug who have seen the differences first hand: If we assume differences are seen (witness, again, his experience), I was looking for even further refinement on what is most efficient. For example, say someone like him noticed that, during weights and swimming, one season he swam only for long distance freestyle and saw one result. The next, he focused on short distance sprinting, say mostly in butterfly, and saw a different set of results. Both while also doing weights. Such a person could tell me "hey, I see your goals, I got closest to that doing the latter (or the former)". This would save me some experimenting on my own. That's it. We've already established that at least some on here have seen a complementary effect of both at once, now I'm just trying to determine if they saw differences within that, based on the type of swimming they did.

Putting aside the jokes and ad hominem attacks for a second (and by all means please continue with those because they're @$#%ing hilarious), let me reiterate what I think is the core answer to the OP's question. You're not swimming enough. Try doing a 2:1 ratio of swimming to lifting, and don't just jump in and swim hard until you get tired. Do real Masters-style workouts with intervals and a sense of purpose. Actually try to get faster and build endurance in swimming. Most of us are swimming 2500+ yards, 3-5 times per week, with varying intensities. Elites swim a whole hell of a lot more than that. Do this for 6 months and see what happens. Obviously do it in combination with a good diet, careful attention to technique, rotator cuff exercises, etc. so that you avoid injury. To put it another way, instead of focusing on a superficial byproduct of swim training, e.g. body type, approach swimming as a skill to be mastered. If you chase Mastery instead of aesthetics you will start to see everything else fall into place naturally.

The problem is Jazz Hands is too busy with put downs and **** talking to be a constructive addition to this conversation. That's okay though, I plan to keep posting and dealing with the friendlies on here while he can scream as loud as he wants. That's the beauty of a forum, our access is equal. Actually "Bro" (if that is your real name), I answered your question, and only started making fun of you when you responded with the zombie bodybuilder lat pose nonsense. That particular post was so blindingly stupid that it caused me to experience an episode of stupidity-induced hysteria. I am deeply sorry. If you want to go point by point: 1. I said that swimmers, especially from swim training in childhood (!!!) might tend to have preferential muscle growth in major swimming muscles, the most majorest of which is the lats. 2. I further said that bodybuilders and most gym bros focus on a different set of muscles. There are very few gym bros who aren't focusing on biceps curls and tons of bench press variations. Anterior deltoid and biceps development in abundance. Meanwhile, the prevailing aesthetic of competitive bodybuilding values certain peripheral muscles. A "balanced" physique in bodybuilding required some freaking large upper arms, etc. But what's balanced for bodybuilding is not necessarily the same as what's balanced for swimming. 3. I said that if you focus on the large muscles of the torso, such as the lats, in your weight training, instead of having an "arm day" as most bodybuilders do, you will develop in more swimmerly proportions. 4. You responded by showing a picture of a competitive bodybuilder (!?!?!) to make the point that... lats... are... bad? I don't even know anymore. I think maybe you're freaked out by the sheer size of the bodybuilder? Don't worry: that will not happen to you unless you start using steroids. Also, as Paul pointed out, that pose is a special technique to over-emphasize the lats. A person of fairly normal size with good overall muscle development and strong lats looks like what you seeeeem to want to look like. And I'll repeat this: I have given a training program to a non-swimmer, which training program included no swimming, and the guy developed a swimmery V shape from doing dips, chins, and deadlifts. And no swimming. I love swimming, and I do think it's great for many aspects of overall physical fitness if you enjoy it, but it's not necessary for your still-somewhat-blurry goals.

For example, say someone like him noticed that, during weights and swimming, one season he swam only for long distance freestyle and saw one result. The next, he focused on short distance sprinting, say mostly in butterfly, and saw a different set of results. Both while also doing weights. Good point. I've noticed a difference between freestyle-only and IM-inclusive training. Breaststroke and butterfly both have a noticeable effect on muscle development. More importantly, by swimming all 4 strokes you become a more complete and accomplished swimmer, and you decrease the likelihood of overuse injuries since you're not spending all of your time on the same repetitive motions. Also, it makes swimming more enjoyable and gives you more options if you ever decide to compete, or if you need to use swimming in a survival situation.

And I'll repeat this: I have given a training program to a non-swimmer, which training program included no swimming, and the guy developed a swimmery V shape from doing dips, chins, and deadlifts. And no swimming. I love swimming, and I do think it's great for many aspects of overall physical fitness if you enjoy it, but it's not necessary for your still-somewhat-blurry goals. Jazz Hands, do you happen to have any shots of this guy? Maybe before/after? I'm willing to listen, but I'm curious to see the results. Your notion and mine might be a little different.

Jazz Hands, do you happen to have any shots of this guy? Maybe before/after? I'm willing to listen, but I'm curious to see the results. Your notion and mine might be a little different. No I don't. And you're so missing the point it hurts. The guy is not you. It's just an anecdote, which is the only type of evidence you're ever going to get on this subject of bafflingly intense interest to you. To believe that strength training always makes people look ugly and bulky, and that swimming is magic fairy dust that bestows beauty and proportion, you would have to have zero (0) knowledge about how muscle hypertrophy actually works. The way a sensible person would deal with this is to start building muscle with a simple full-body routine. Then, if you can identify some muscles that you think are overdeveloped, figure out where they are being trained in your routine, and dial it back. Unfortunately, you're not a sensible person.