No sandbagging: It's the law

For some people, any deviation from a seed time draws a comment. Who exactly are these people?

Define hyperbole for me and use it in a sentence. Gull's moral superiority is bigger than the state of texas, alaska and the former soviet union combined.

Gull's moral superiority is bigger than the state of texas, alaska and the former soviet union combined. I don't see the word "hyperbole" in that sentence, so I can only give you partial credit.

I guess each time we swim a lot faster or slower than our entry time, we should apologize to the people around us for potientially f-ing up their race Sorry but that's a straw man. The issue isn't poor or great performance, the issue is DELIBERATE slow seeding before hand. If you blow out a shoulder and don't finish, that's one thing but if you are ripping off 2:00 repeats for 200 free in practice and seed at 2:05 that is completely different. So please, stick to the base issue here of INTENTIONALLY putting an unrealistic seed time. I don't care about the folks who put an honest time and either have the swim of thier life or have something happen that adversely affects thier performance. That can not be controlled. But what CAN be controlled is once again the DELIBERATE mis-representation of a swimmer's realistic time. My first meet in 2008, I seeded very poorly, not intentionally but because it was my first meet in 20 years with a whole month back in the pool. And I was embarrased a bit as I swam considerably faster than my seed times. But I didn't want to NT as that would have been much worse. Those things happen but the fact is that deliberately entering a seed time will affect the meet experience of a minimum of one swimmer (not including the sandbagger) and potentially much more than that.

No chance to sandbag in Germany, the coaches fill out all meet entry forms, no discussion. Masters Swimmers do get to pick their races, however--Gott sei Dank!

I will keep this in mind next year at the albatross meet when I do a reverse sandbag to warm-down from an event that is scheduled to close to another favorite event. We'll be happy to take your money! Please enter the maximum number of events. And buy a t-shirt and social ticket, too :applaud: I'm glad all you guys are so willing to dismiss the concerns of the opposite sex in mixed gender meets. As I asked before, and no one answered, is it fair for the fastest women to swim in outside lanes while the fastest men swim in center lanes or for women generally to get more outside lanes? Is this concern really tantamount to seeing "shadows" in lanes? Doesn't really seem all that sporting to me or to other women. But the guys are set, so I guess it's just easier to rag on women for sandbagging. I've heard you loud and clear that you don't like swimming in meets seeded mixed gender. And you are absolutely right that other women feel the same way as you even if they haven't said so here. Last year a woman wrote a request to the Albatross meet staff asking us to consider seeding the sexes apart. And I know of men who don't like racing against women because they don't take it so well getting beat by women (I'm starting to get used to it, BTW!). And obviously there are meets that address these concerns and seed the meet M&W apart. In fact, there are two annual meets at your own home pool that seed the sexes apart (Sprint Classic in the fall, Zones in the spring) and another meet a short drive away (David Gregg in February). And of course Nationals twice a year. And there are also women who prefer mixed gender seeding because they simply want to race against people of similar speed regardless of age, gender. And there are men who like swimming against women because it gives them extra incentive to not get "chicked." And there are meets seeded this way. I think I finally get it that you are trying to justify why it is acceptable to sandbag in a mixed gender meet (however, I'll still disagree because it means placing you next to somebody seeded with a much slower time and it isn't fair to them). And I haven't seen you sandbag in a separate gender seeded meet so this all makes sense. The meets that seed everybody together don't do this just to irritate women who don't like to swim against men, they do it because they can't rent the pool any longer. Since there are already meets in place that seed the way you prefer, can't you just focus on those meets for ideal conditions and then do the other ones just for fun? Jeff

I am not sure how comparable USA-S (especially age group) meets are to USMS meets. In USA-S meets it is not uncommon at all to see swimmers blow their times out of the water; then (if I know the kid and congratulate him/her) I find out that the time is over one year old. At 13 or 14 that makes a pretty huge difference! Heck, I see age-groupers doing best times in practice sometimes. Older kids are different, but that is also a crapshoot based on hormonal levels, who's dating whom, the phase of the moon, and God knows what else. I have seen such huge differences in prelim & final swims that I just marvel how age-group coaches have any hair left at all.I agree, but, relative to the heat sheet, whether it's Masters or USAS, there's just different s**t that impacts why the entry time differs from the result. I can tell you I was very bummed that the kid seeded next to me (faster) in the 800 went way SLOWER than his entry time as I was looking to go what his entry time was and was hoping he'd pace me. After the 100, though, when I realized he was going to be off, I got over it and did what we all need to do: I swam the best I could and tried to race whoever else I could find in the pool. For me, what this meant was trying to see how far I could extend my lead over said kid in lane 3 ... even though he was off, I could still 'use' his performance to help me. There are loads of ways to race ... head-to-head isn't the only method.

"Have had affiliation as a Master in England, Germany, Portugal, Spain, never accepted coaches, organizations or anyone to decide which entry time would be signed." How did you convince your German coach to willfully enter a sandbagged time--especially when his valued reputation (trust me on this) is on the line?

Older kids are different, but that is also a crapshoot based on hormonal levels, who's dating whom, the phase of the moon, and God knows what else. I have seen such huge differences in prelim & final swims that I just marvel how age-group coaches have any hair left at all. Me too. :applaud: :applaud: Gotta give you props on this one. You show a remarkable understanding of the considerations that go into a coach's post-race critique starting at the age of 13. 12&Unders are always the proverbial crap shoot.

Coach?! never had a coach and think never will; have been a Masters for 17 years training alone. Did not had to convince anyone, while doing my registrations always put which time I want to enter, if by any change the organization decides to put a time given by the informatics system I ask polity to change , no participation if the organization refuses. As my nationality rarely is the same as the affiliation seldom had problems (people think as a foreigner……), but sporadically I miss a few competitions because federations assume what time I am going to do :blah: I see. It is different when you swim for a team in Germany. It is good to know that if I ever get into sandbagging I can always quit the team and still get to swim in some meets.