The anti-sandbag law:
"if a swimmer enters an event with a time significantly slower or faster than that swimmer's recorded time in the past two years, the meet director may, after a discussion with the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time" (104.5.5.A(10)).
Concerning my Auburn nationals entry, I confess, when faced with a 7 hour 2 stop flight and 3:45 nonstop at an earlier time, I did what any warm-blooded middle-aged American swimmer with low self-esteem would do--sandbag my entry so I could catch the earlier flight, thus diminishing the possible time spent sitting next to a 400 pound Alabama slammer with sleep apnea wearing nothing but overalls and body odor. Of course, I was caught in my bold fabrication and my time was "fixed."
USMS seems to have an identity problem. Are we hard core with rigid qualifying times? It would seem not as 2 of my not-so-speedy family members were allowed to swim four events last year in Puerto Rico. If we are not hard core, why does anybody care that I sandbag? More to the point, why can one person enter a crappy time and another cannot? Just wondering.:)
A few points: A rule is only legitimate if it can be enforced equally. As an example (keeping the insults close to home), if my wife (who by the way, has mad bike skills but suspect swimming skills) decides to tack on 5 minutes to her entry time, nobody would bat an eye. But since I am perhaps recognized by someone in data entry, I cannot get away with the same thing? This seems unfair and inconsistent.
If getting blown away throws off your race, consider that it happens in all the heats (I was next to Mike Ross in the 200 Free at Indy and I believe I was beaten by around 10 seconds).
I offered to tell everyone in my heat and wear a scarlet S on my chest to no avail. I agree that it is dishonest and hampers competition, but still would like to do it as I do not want to be held hostage for another day in Alabama. If you feel me blowing out the first heat cheapens the competition, I would submit that they probably would not know the difference: many are the same semi-oblivious people that are in front of me at a light when it turns green and then red, causing them to finally speed off, leaving me to wait through yet another light.:)
Patrick, I look forward to your return as a D-man and I can assume my rightful place as third best 40-44 D-man in AZ (or did I miss someone else?).:bighug:Back at you buddy.
It's difficult enough for many to find the time and energy to even attend meets. And it's difficult to estimate times in the non tech suit era. Most people do their best with entries.
I wouldn't call making a mistaken prediction, "sandbagging." You enter the approximate time you think you will do. There is a chance (like the previous poster who hadn't swum in 17 years) you might be off by quite a bit.
Your comment about time & energy works both ways. Sandbagging lessens the experience for others who expend "time and energy to attend meets." There is a reason it is against the rules, after all.
If getting blown away throws off your race, consider that it happens in all the heats (I was next to Mike Ross in the 200 Free at Indy and I believe I was beaten by around 10 seconds).
I don't think this is quite the same thing. I seem to recall that Mike enters a time he has done previously, or something close to it. If you are next to someone that you know is much faster than you, it shouldn't surprise you that he goes out fast. But if you are next to someone you don't know with the same entry time as you, and s/he blows you away on the first lap, then yes that can affect some people.
Look, I don't think sandbagging equates to child molesting or anything. It is a minor aggravation in the big scheme of things, like being exposed to second-hand smoke. But be honest about it: if you think it doesn't affect anyone else (even if in a relatively small way), then you are kidding yourself.
Regarding split request swims, you can still enter the race with an honest estimate. If you're going to swim the first 100 in 1 minute and the second 100 in around 3 minutes, then enter with a time of 4 minutes. If you end up close to your entry time and don't hold up the meet then no one should have a problem with it. I recall that Paul Smith's 1000 where he raced only the first 100 ended up very close to his entry time, and also ehoch did a 1500 where he raced the first 400 (I think) and also ended up very close to his entry time.
thus diminishing the possible time spent sitting next to a 400 pound Alabama slammer with sleep apnea wearing nothing but overalls and body odor.
Aside from the timing and a bad cow-tipping memory from Auburn, a big reason for me NOT to go to summer Nationals is that Auburn is a pain to get to ... pretty much for everyone except those who live there.
I know a couple people that aren't getting the deluxe Cam Newton Sightseeing tour unless their attitude toward the great state of Alabama changes some.
I know a couple people that aren't getting the deluxe Cam Newton Sightseeing tour unless their attitude toward the great state of Alabama changes some.
He's in Charlotte now. Gee, thanks a lot.
if you thinks it doesn't affect anyone else (even if in a relatively small way), then you are kidding yourself.
I have knowingly sandbagged once in 19 years (this would have been number 2). I do not believe I said my sandbagging would not affect someone else, I just did not think it was a significant enough issue for me to worry about. If you don't think I know about tragedy of the commons--I work in the ER, I am living the dream.
Bottom line: There is no way to apply this rule in an even manner.
Once I get to where the interstate ends and the dirt road begins(usually at the GA/AL state line) I have to wait until the dirt road dries out from the rain.
And if you're lucky the bridge won't be out and Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane won't be out enforcing the $100 "exit fee" for leaving Hazzard County.
I have knowingly sandbagged once in 19 years (this would have been number 2). I do not believe I said my sandbagging would not affect someone else, I just did not think it was a significant enough issue for me to worry about. If you don't think I know about tragedy of the commons--I work in the ER, I am living the dream.
Bottom line: There is no way to apply this rule in an even manner.
The "you" was meant to be general, not you specifically. I'm not judging, despite how the posts might come across. Sandbagging annoys me but I go through entire days where I don't think about it all.:)
The only times I've ever heard anyone complain about someone else's seed times, it was either a masters swimmer, a disgruntled coach, or a uptight age group parent
Slight tangent, but funny you mention this. The first time I recall anyone complaining about someone else's seed time was when I was a teenager and it was the parent of another swimmer. This was at our state long course championship meet and this parent approached me while I was eating breakfast and asked if I had seen this (third) swimmer swim the time he was seeded with in the 1500. I said no. This kid was entered with a very fast time and obviously the parent was miffed that he was seeded ahead of or very close to his son's time (who was a phenomenal swimmer).
Now here's the kicker to this story. I just read in the last couple years that the coach of the third swimmer--the one with the dubious seed time--was reprimanded by USA Swimming for entering his swimmers with bogus times. As in they hadn't achieved Sectional times, but he falsified results to make it look like they had. So, looks like the disgruntled parent all those years ago may have been on to something!
