The anti-sandbag law:
"if a swimmer enters an event with a time significantly slower or faster than that swimmer's recorded time in the past two years, the meet director may, after a discussion with the swimmer, change the seeded time to a realistic time" (104.5.5.A(10)).
Concerning my Auburn nationals entry, I confess, when faced with a 7 hour 2 stop flight and 3:45 nonstop at an earlier time, I did what any warm-blooded middle-aged American swimmer with low self-esteem would do--sandbag my entry so I could catch the earlier flight, thus diminishing the possible time spent sitting next to a 400 pound Alabama slammer with sleep apnea wearing nothing but overalls and body odor. Of course, I was caught in my bold fabrication and my time was "fixed."
USMS seems to have an identity problem. Are we hard core with rigid qualifying times? It would seem not as 2 of my not-so-speedy family members were allowed to swim four events last year in Puerto Rico. If we are not hard core, why does anybody care that I sandbag? More to the point, why can one person enter a crappy time and another cannot? Just wondering.:)
Former Member
Which is more unsportsmanlike: a guy who is on the slow side knowing the 3 free event rule avoids the obvious "temptation" of entering say 50s or 100s and enters and completes a mile in close to an hour, a 400 IM in 20 plus minutes, and some other event in an inordinate amount of time or say some hypothetical guy who enters a bogus time for a 400 so he can catch the only nonstop out of Birmingham to surprise his mommy for her 85th birthday?
C'mon man have a heart...it's nana we're talking about here.
I skipped Mesa because my daughter's birthday fell on that weekend.
And I would say it is more unsportsmanlike to call out the slower swimmers as you are doing than to sandbag.
BTW my dad (who will be 90 in October) completes the mile in about fifty minutes. He actually worries about being "too slow" to swim in meets, and I reassure him that he is not.
I'm glad all you guys are so willing to dismiss the concerns of the opposite sex in mixed gender meets. As I asked before, and no one answered, is it fair for the fastest women to swim in outside lanes while the fastest men swim in center lanes or for women generally to get more outside lanes? Is this concern really tantamount to seeing "shadows" in lanes? Doesn't really seem all that sporting to me or to other women. But the guys are set, so I guess it's just easier to rag on women for sandbagging.
What guys are set? 99% of us swim every race in a completely random lane. The poor plight of the top ranked female in a mixed gender meet. Perhaps you can find consolation in your national titles and top 10 rankings.
Like I said earlier, perhaps you have an argument that the top ranked female should get the same opportunity as the top ranked male. But this seems beyond petty in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps the solution would be to seed the top couple of men into random lanes in the final heat if this is that big of an issue. Then every single swimmer would be in the same boat.
You are simply restating the obvious. But platitudes like "swim your own race" or "it's only Masters" do not alter the fact that sandbagging (ie intentionally entering a slow seed time) is unsportsmanlike. If sportsmanship does not matter to you, then feel free to ignore this thread.
Thanks for the advice on ignoring the thread. I probably will ignore it though. Why should it matter what time someone else enters? If you going to meets for your pleasure, to see how your training is paying off, then why worry about what someone else is doing at the meet?
I think your response is petty, and bereft of some of the actual analysis in other posts such as Gulls. Perhaps if you trained harder and more often, you would be faster and not assigned a random lane. I am not exactly a slouch, though I do get plenty of random lanes.
This is not, moreover, just my own personal petty complaint. Many women feel this way about mixed gender meets. And it's not just about outside lanes; it's about getting swamped by some men depending on pool conditions.
And I never drive like you suggest.
I'm signing off on the all male thread now.
oh, if you want some analysis to back up my posts I analyzed your lane placement in the first few events that showed up in the masters data base. Assuming an 8 lane pool in the 50 free you were in an outside lane in 25% of your races. 50 back 15%, 100 back 33%, 50 fly 23%. For an average of averages of 24% in an outside lane compared to an expected value of 25%.
Now we can dispense with the prior accusations of cheating, rule violations, illegalities, immorality, tragedy of the commons, etc.
Perhaps we can dispense with hyperbole, too.
I believe the issue is whether or not sandbagging is unsportsmanlike.
Why should it matter what time someone else enters? If you are going to meets for your pleasure, to see how your training is paying off, then why worry about what someone else is doing at the meet?
I enter meets for a variety of reasons. But my expectation is that the other swimmers will conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner.
Perhaps we can dispense with hyperbole, too.
I believe the issue is whether or not sandbagging is unsportsmanlike.
I enter meets for a variety of reasons. But my expectation is that the other swimmers will conduct themselves in a sportsmanlike manner.
If a swimmer enteres a time they are comfortable entering, for whatever reason, how is it unsportmanlike? Should we all run our meet entries by you, for your approval, to make sure we are competing based on your opinion of what others should do to take the meet good for you?
Should we all run our meet entries by you, for your approval, to make sure we are competing based on your opinion of what others should do to make the meet good for you?
No hyperbole there.
If a swimmer enters a time they are comfortable entering, for whatever reason, how is it unsportsmanlike?
Not sure why you insist on being so obtuse. You know very well that by using the term "sandbagging" we are not referring to those who enter a time that is "comfortable" for them.
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Not sure why you insist on being so obtuse. You know very well that by using the term "sandbagging" we are not referring to those who enter a time that is "comfortable" for them.
I am not being obtuse. What I don't understand is why people care so damn much what others do in our adult fun league. Apparently, some of you do care if someone doesn't just enter their absolute lifetime best masters world record never been faster time for meets.
Apparently, some of you do care if someone doesn't just enter their absolute lifetime best masters world record never been faster time for meets.
Define hyperbole for me and use it in a sentence.
