I see some age groupers getting real good results grabbing the gutter and placing feet a bit lower. They come right out and get clean entries just like the bar grabbers. Is this just a developmental thing, or can Masters benefit? I think the added buoyancy by staying low in the water at the start creates a stronger pushoff and slingshot?
I see some age groupers getting real good results grabbing the gutter and placing feet a bit lower. They come right out and get clean entries just like the bar grabbers. Is this just a developmental thing, or can Masters benefit? I think the added buoyancy by staying low in the water at the start creates a stronger pushoff and slingshot?
This is EXACTLY as I do it. I can always play around in practice with any pool doing a backstroke start like this. I do find that having a lower center of gravity helps me on my takeoff. I also have a staggered foot placement on the wall, one foot lower than the other as a track start. At the announcement of "take your mark" I pull up slightly, just enough to spring quickly, but not enough to change my center of gravity. At the starting signal I'm right up and out of the water going in fairly cleanly into the water. At the end of the race however, the timers always look like they just got out of a shower. :bliss:
I see some age groupers getting real good results grabbing the gutter and placing feet a bit lower. They come right out and get clean entries just like the bar grabbers. Is this just a developmental thing, or can Masters benefit? I think the added buoyancy by staying low in the water at the start creates a stronger pushoff and slingshot?
There was some discussion of this in the backstroke lane thread some time back.
U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums - View Single Post - The Backstroke Lane
It's a bad idea
The higher you start the more water you clear
The less water you drag through
The further and faster you go
Gutter starts are for swimmers who can't do starts holding the grips on the blocks
Also you want to get get your butt away from your heels.
Bend knees at 90 degrees
I see some age groupers getting real good results grabbing the gutter and placing feet a bit lower. They come right out and get clean entries just like the bar grabbers. Is this just a developmental thing, or can Masters benefit? I think the added buoyancy by staying low in the water at the start creates a stronger pushoff and slingshot?
Starting from the gutter is slower in most cases. Use the block if you can.
Most of the time kids starting from the gutter are either too small to reach or have not yet mastered using the block. I look at it like starting on the side of the pool instead of the block in non-back events.
Also, if you are starting on flat walls (FINA) there are no gutters to grab...
I disagree with those saying gutter starts are bad. I'm with you
I'll agree that ideally a start using the block is faster, but I have a feeling many people would be better off using a gutter start--but definitely keep working on the regular block start. No question it can be faster.As with anything, YMMV.
Ever since they outlawed the perfectly reasonable stand-up backstroke start, I prefer doing my backstroke only in events that don't require a backstroke start.
I disagree with those saying gutter starts are bad. I'll agree that ideally a start using the block is faster, but I have a feeling many people would be better off using a gutter start--but definitely keep working on the regular block start. No question it can be faster.
Arthur makes a good point, though.
my starts depend on the facilities available. some grab bars are too high or their style just doesn't feel right, at which point I turn to the gutter for help, and the same thing applies for the gutter. Personally, I don't really feel like I get a better start with one or the other in general - obviously, in specific situations one is better than the other.
Consider this: using the blocks/grab bar, I find myself deeper in the water off the start (usually ~3 feet), and thus the amplitude of my forward projectile motion has a pretty low valley to start. A gutter start finds me much closer to the surface (1-2 feet) and gives me a much flatter amplitude to start. I would think that since the fastest distance between point a and b is a straight line, that for me, the gutter start will almost always be the best bet.
I would think that since the fastest distance between point a and b is a straight line, that for me, the gutter start will almost always be the best bet.
By this logic the shallowest start would always be the fastest start and I think it's pretty clear this isn't the case primarily because you need to get underwater far enough to avoid wave drag at the surface. Just consider people who push off the wall right on the surface. They go nowhere.
I think Muppet means that his gutter start allows him to go deep enough to avoid the waves created at the surface but not so deep that he at a disadvantage, esp. when racing swimmie.
My opinion is one to two feet is not deep enough, and probably not even three feet. If you look at underwater videos of the greats like Lochte and Peirsol they're going a lot deeper than that on the start.
My backstroke start is my baby -- probably the thing I do best in swimming. Personally, I would never use a gutter start. I'd feel like I was flopping on my back. Much easier to get a cleaner deeper entry from the blocks. YMMV
But Wookiee may be correct in his analysis of what most masters can do. You need a vicious kick if you're 3-4 feet under.
