DQ'd

Allen, I can definitely relate. I've been DQ'd twice since I was maybe 9 years old, both in the last year and both unfairly (I thought at the time). Both swims were records and both were "breakthrough" swims for me, arguably my best swims of those seasons. One case was the 200 LCM back last year at Indy, broke the WR by 6 sec. DQ'd for going past 15m. What made it tough was (a) I took the same number of kicks I always take and (b) they didn't have permanent markers at 15m, they had to use the lane markers which don't all line up (because they can move). It was a judgment call and the ref had to back the judge. What makes it harder is that I saw a video of the race 2 days later and could see my start, and even zoomed in and advancing frame-by-frame I couldn't tell that I had gone past 15m by the time my head broke the surface. So it was close, and I guess I thought I should get the benefit of the doubt. It also bothers me that we have to be so precise in measuring pool lengths and can be so inexact about the placement of the 15m mark. Even Kathy Casey had no answer for me on that. In such cases it would seem to me that you have to obviously exceed the mark to be called on it. But fine, I push the envelope on underwaters; I figured there have probably been times in the past that I *haven't* been called when I should have been, though it was tough on a race where I swam so well (arguably one of my best 2 races in the last 4-5 years, and in my best event). But I got DQ'd in the 400 IM (what would have been a new USMS record by 3 sec) last spring for the exact same reason you did in the ***: double dolphin. My story is similar to yours: I don't push the envelope and I take a dolphin kick in the middle of the pull-down. I was flabbergasted to be called on this because I've never heard a hint that I was illegal on that. The judge couldn't tell me when I took the 2nd kick, but the ref backed him anyway. I hear so many stories of DQs for this that I think that they should either abolish dolphin kicks altogether (like the old days), or just allow as many as you want. What makes both of those calls tough is that I haven't approached either time since then (I was wearing jammers for both, so it isn't the suit). But I guess it gives me something to shoot for... :) I respect S&T judges a lot, but sometimes they seem to think they have to call something. My son was DQ'd twice in the summer championship meet last year for different infractions -- both bogus in my mind -- and in both cases he swam the same stroke he had done all summer (not to mention all year with USA-S) without getting DQ'd. That upset me more than my own DQ's because my son was so upset by it; one case was a relay where his team won first place at champs, and he was in tears b/c he felt he let his team down. So I guess I respect S&T judges less than I used to...at least the ones that seem a little too trigger-happy... Gosh, I guess I do feel better. Thanks, Allen! I saw that 200 back. It was a beautiful race. I hope the magic will happen again. I find summer league judges to be somewhat trigger happy. Most knowledgable officials will give kids the benefit of the doubt unless a DQ is really clear. It's the inexperienced ones that typically search for a DQ. I was at a high school meet Friday night where I was an RTO. Another judge who had never officiated before called an early start. I did not, and it definitely wasn't. Fortunately, on that call, the two judges must agree so the team was not DQ'd. Allen, it completely sucks to be DQ'd at a taper meet that you've travelled for. If you're kicking in the middle of your pull down, I have no idea what the judge can see. Your toes moving or bobbing? Your body moving naturally? This year, I was DQ'd twice in ***, 100 *** at Zones (allegedly 2 complete stroke cycles, total BS) and 50 *** at Nats (double dolphin). Because I pre-kick before the pulldown, there is undulation when I pull down hard. (BTW, I think that is what I saw in watching David Guthrie's swim on the vid of Ande's record breaking medley relay this weekend.) How is it possible to not move the rest of your body when your upper half is engaged in a ferocious pulling motion? IDK, but I agree with Chris that there are now too many DQs as a result of the rule change. And it's odd. In 2009, I swam my 50 breasts (one an AA) the same way -- no DQ. In 2010, two DQs. Officials seem to be looking for something in breaststroke now. I am sorry about Laura Val and her 200 back. What did she allegedly do in that race? A non-continuous turn? When I was DQ'd at Nats (and that was after missing my heat for not being able to hear the start), I allowed myself some time to rage, then put it aside and concentrated on my next race. But, honestly, it soured my Nats experience. And it's made me more paranoid. Like Chris, now I have to worry about evil -- though I'll likely stop racing it as much -- and backstroke (15 meter rule). Still, I am stubborn and sticking with the pre kick and max SDK. And I think protesting a DQ at a masters meet is futile. The referee is typically not watching the race, so per se can't overrule a S&T. But I think they should be willing to throw out more DQ slips when the S&Ts don't write to the rule.

Allen, I can definitely relate. I've been DQ'd twice since I was maybe 9 years old, both in the last year and both unfairly (I thought at the time). Both swims were records and both were "breakthrough" swims for me, arguably my best swims of those seasons. One case was the 200 LCM back last year at Indy, broke the WR by 6 sec. DQ'd for going past 15m. What made it tough was (a) I took the same number of kicks I always take and (b) they didn't have permanent markers at 15m, they had to use the lane markers which don't all line up (because they can move). It was a judgment call and the ref had to back the judge. What makes it harder is that I saw a video of the race 2 days later and could see my start, and even zoomed in and advancing frame-by-frame I couldn't tell that I had gone past 15m by the time my head broke the surface. So it was close, and I guess I thought I should get the benefit of the doubt. It also bothers me that we have to be so precise in measuring pool lengths and can be so inexact about the placement of the 15m mark. Even Kathy Casey had no answer for me on that. In such cases it would seem to me that you have to obviously exceed the mark to be called on it. But fine, I push the envelope on underwaters; I figured there have probably been times in the past that I *haven't* been called when I should have been, though it was tough on a race where I swam so well (arguably one of my best 2 races in the last 4-5 years, and in my best event). But I got DQ'd in the 400 IM (what would have been a new USMS record by 3 sec) last spring for the exact same reason you did in the ***: double dolphin. My story is similar to yours: I don't push the envelope and I take a dolphin kick in the middle of the pull-down. I was flabbergasted to be called on this because I've never heard a hint that I was illegal on that. The judge couldn't tell me when I took the 2nd kick, but the ref backed him anyway. I hear so many stories of DQs for this that I think that they should either abolish dolphin kicks altogether (like the old days), or just allow as many as you want. What makes both of those calls tough is that I haven't approached either time since then (I was wearing jammers for both, so it isn't the suit). But I guess it gives me something to shoot for... :) I respect S&T judges a lot, but sometimes they seem to think they have to call something. My son was DQ'd twice in the summer championship meet last year for different infractions -- both bogus in my mind -- and in both cases he swam the same stroke he had done all summer (not to mention all year with USA-S) without getting DQ'd. That upset me more than my own DQ's because my son was so upset by it; one case was a relay where his team won first place at champs, and he was in tears b/c he felt he let his team down. So I guess I respect S&T judges less than I used to...at least the ones that seem a little too trigger-happy... Gosh, I guess I do feel better. Thanks, Allen! I saw that 200 back. It was a beautiful race. I hope the magic will happen again. I find summer league judges to be somewhat trigger happy. Most knowledgable officials will give kids the benefit of the doubt unless a DQ is really clear. It's the inexperienced ones that typically search for a DQ. I was at a high school meet Friday night where I was an RTO. Another judge who had never officiated before called an early start. I did not, and it definitely wasn't. Fortunately, on that call, the two judges must agree so the team was not DQ'd. Allen, it completely sucks to be DQ'd at a taper meet that you've travelled for. If you're kicking in the middle of your pull down, I have no idea what the judge can see. Your toes moving or bobbing? Your body moving naturally? This year, I was DQ'd twice in ***, 100 *** at Zones (allegedly 2 complete stroke cycles, total BS) and 50 *** at Nats (double dolphin). Because I pre-kick before the pulldown, there is undulation when I pull down hard. (BTW, I think that is what I saw in watching David Guthrie's swim on the vid of Ande's record breaking medley relay this weekend.) How is it possible to not move the rest of your body when your upper half is engaged in a ferocious pulling motion? IDK, but I agree with Chris that there are now too many DQs as a result of the rule change. And it's odd. In 2009, I swam my 50 breasts (one an AA) the same way -- no DQ. In 2010, two DQs. Officials seem to be looking for something in breaststroke now. I am sorry about Laura Val and her 200 back. What did she allegedly do in that race? A non-continuous turn? When I was DQ'd at Nats (and that was after missing my heat for not being able to hear the start), I allowed myself some time to rage, then put it aside and concentrated on my next race. But, honestly, it soured my Nats experience. And it's made me more paranoid. Like Chris, now I have to worry about evil -- though I'll likely stop racing it as much -- and backstroke (15 meter rule). Still, I am stubborn and sticking with the pre kick and max SDK. And I think protesting a DQ at a masters meet is futile. The referee is typically not watching the race, so per se can't overrule a S&T. But I think they should be willing to throw out more DQ slips when the S&Ts don't write to the rule.