What is the USMS Official rule for breastroke pullout?

My take? FINA screwed the pooch on creating this mess. This rule was intended to take the 'interpretation' out of if a swimmer's feet actually kicked or just undulated very strongly as a result of finishing the pullout arm stroke aka the Kitijima Rule. Fine, I'm OK with that. But then the Rules Lawyers(tm) got into it and so then FINA seemed to feel that they needed to state WHEN the kick could occur vis a vis the pullout which gave us the 'can coincide with or immediately follow the arm pull' definition. Anf then, in true human fashion, folks started to game the system and try and put the dolphin kick as early as possible to the point that some folks actually start the kick before the pull even starts, leading to FINA's brilliant interpretation that the pull 'commences with any outward movement of the hands' but didn't state that once the movement has commenced it shall be continuous. So pop those hands 2 inches apart, dolphin kick and THEN 'finish' your pull as hard as you can, and while your at it, try and sneak a 2nd kick in as your feet will naturally undulate if you have a strong snap at the end of your pull. Putting us right back in the mess than FINA thought they were clarifying. I would like to Deek every person who does that for taking a 2nd dolphin kick but can't because, thanks to FINA, this is a rule than can not be enforced by humans as the order of judging is supposed to be check the hands THEN check the feet. So if they kick before the hands move, it's impossible to call from the deck.

I have always done my dolphin kick just as my full pull is finishing. I don't see what kind of advantage there would be to starting it before the stroke anyway. Is there some advantage? It kinda feels like that dolphin kick is just a natural derivative of my body motion as I pull back. A kick while in streamline would feel like "extra"...maybe that's the advantage they want to eliminate. Don't know...

The video above shows well what I was exemplifying in videos I posted in another thread. (Set-up your stroke first then pull) A physics comment....it may be best to sequence the pull and the kick, eg pull mostly through and then dolphin kick. Drag increases dramatically with speed, and thus pulling and kicking at mostly the same time, while it generates a feeling of surge, generates lots of drag. Thus, appears better to incur less drag and keep lower-drag speed for a longer period of time by pulling and then kicking (rather than simultaneous), thus optimizing net propulsion.

back to the rules the rule states that the pull must precede the kick (the breaststroke is a cycle stroke, first arms then legs) however, as I understand it, to make allowance for a Japanese swimmer, the rule is interpreted officially to mean that ANY downward or sideways motion of the hands or arms constitutes the beginning of the pull (not whether it was an actual pull) and that there is no rule against a discontinuous pull. thus, a swimmer could - legally - ever so slightly move the hands or arms downward or sideways, take a rather long pause, then actually pull back...back beyond the hips if desired on that first pull off the blocks or wall) since it is virtually impossible to say with certainty (the standard of officiating along with giving the swimmer the benefit of the doubt) what possibly small movements the hands or arms made were accomplished by the swimmer while the official looks through bubbling and eddying water, the call of 'kick before pull' or 'out of sequence' shall be only rarely invoked (at Nationals a couple weeks ago, most such calls were overturned upon keen video inspection....raising in my mind a quandary....swimmers may get DQed at regular meets because they are not 'saved' by the video replay) what seemed to be a clear rule - pull before the kick - turns out to be a legal blur.

A physics comment....it may be best to... USA-S has a group that analyzes technique and goes around the country showing various club teams and training camps what are the currently accepted conclusions on technique based on scientific analysis. They work with/under the director of biomechanics, Russell Mark. My club team was lucky enough to have one such meeting last year on this topic (unfortunately I can't recall the woman's name who was the USA-S staff member). As of last year, their official take was that there is virtually no difference in speed between doing the kick before or simultaneous to the pullout. Analysis was based on numerous breaststrokers including Kitajima and Soni. I have no idea if USA-S publishes any of this stuff, but they should.

While reading this thread I began to wonder if a more reasonable interpretation was that you get one and only one movement that resembles a dolphin kick Nice point. The rules say 'the swimmer MAY take a single downward dolphin kick'. Doesn't say has to, say it's at the swimmers discretion. Further evidence that FINA really pooched-the-screw.

Yes, I should have said the swimmer may make at most one movement resembling a dolphin kick, including any "natural undulation" during the pull down. I can't believe that I'm defending FINA but it really is rather difficult to find precise wording. It would be an interesting exercise to go through the rules and find faulty rules and try and come up with a bulletproof wording. I tried to do that for the butterfly rule saying you must perform the arm action "throughout the race" and never came up with anything I was completely satisfied with. They had wording that worked until they came up with a new 'interpretation' so, sorry, not letting FINA off the hook.

My take on the FINA rule change was similar to Paul's, that FINA had blown it by allowing one kick which just led to swimmers trying to take two. While reading this thread I began to wonder if a more reasonable interpretation was that you get one and only one movement that resembles a dolphin kick, so you have the choice of doing a dolphin kick early in the pull and then executing the pull down with absolutely no hint of a dolphin kick whether due to natural undulation or not, or you can build your dolphin kick into the natural undulation, but not both. I have no idea if officials are instructed to interpret it this way or not but it makes the FINA rule more understandable than if you allow one early dolphin plus a "natural undulation". Popular folklore has it that the change in the FINA rule was based largely on the Kitajima incident in Athens but the issue of incorporating a dolphin kick into the natural undulation of the pull down was a much wider issue that needed to be dealt with.

(at Nationals a couple weeks ago, most such calls were overturned upon keen video inspection....raising in my mind a quandary....swimmers may get DQed at regular meets because they are not 'saved' by the video replay) It was my understanding that video of a swim cannot be used in settling DQ issues. If would not be fair to do so unless you have a every lane covered, else a person who had a camera on them could be DQed or have their DQ overturned while another swimmer who performed the exact same thing would not be DQed or have their DQ overturned.

Nice point. The rules say 'the swimmer MAY take a single downward dolphin kick'. Doesn't say has to, say it's at the swimmers discretion. Further evidence that FINA really pooched-the-screw. Yes, I should have said the swimmer may make at most one movement resembling a dolphin kick, including any "natural undulation" during the pull down. I can't believe that I'm defending FINA but it really is rather difficult to find precise wording. It would be an interesting exercise to go through the rules and find faulty rules and try and come up with a bulletproof wording. I tried to do that for the butterfly rule saying you must perform the arm action "throughout the race" and never came up with anything I was completely satisfied with.