Found this video on youtube while researching breaststroke drills:
YouTube- Swimming - Breaststroke - Underwater Pull, Power Phase
For those not able to see the video, the gist is: The dolphin kick can start with any parallel or downward motion of the hands (per the video).
Does this rule interpretation apply to USMS? Hopefully someone with authoritative knowledge can give their .02... As I am setting up my drill/practice routines I'd like to do it the right way : ).
Thanks :bow: to any or all guru's who reply!
Chris
FINA rules apply,but Masters Refs are not intimidated by big names so if you aren't legal you will get DQd.Since the rule change was to help as so many BR swimmers have a"natural undulation" you may well get DQd for your "natural undulation "if you do the early kick.I have tried both and go further underwater with the early kick,but my time to 15 M wasn't faster and the increased oxygen debt wasn't worth it to me.YMMV
FINA rules apply,but Masters Refs are not intimidated by big names so if you aren't legal you will get DQd.Since the rule change was to help as so many BR swimmers have a"natural undulation" you may well get DQd for your "natural undulation "if you do the early kick.I have tried both and go further underwater with the early kick,but my time to 15 M wasn't faster and the increased oxygen debt wasn't worth it to me.YMMV
I had a very fast time erased at Nats by a DQ for "natural undulation" on my first 25. (I guess the judge wasn't judging the way Wolfy says he was supposed to!) But I get father this way, so I will persist. Though my evilstroke events, without the tech suits, will now be very severely reduced.
What potentially goes wrong if you watch the feet first and then check if the arms have started the pull?
Then you will never see the start of the pull, also in the time you switch from the feet to the hands, they may or may not have started the pull. True if you see a kick and the hands haen't moved, it's a violation but the stroke is defined as a pull followed by a kick. One can see a breaststroke kick being made even if one is focused on the hands but one can not necessarily see a dolphin kick being made in the same situation.
It's a valid point but the judging is briefed as hands, then feet.
DQ'd at Nats??? That freakin blows. My last real race in High School (I think it was finals at sectionals) I double fallstarted and had to watch from the deck. The starter totally dragged it too. I was sooo pissed.
I think it just feels more natural to dive, streamline for two counts, pull, then kick, then sneak my hands up and start pulling. If I were to do a kick before or at the start of my pull, I'd feel compelled to do another as I finished my pull.
Yeah, it blew. And it was a double whammy. First I didn't hear the start and just stood there as the championship heat in my age group hit the water. Then, 2 heats later, I swam in a slow heat, went a 32.8 for what would have been fourth, and was DQ'd. It's hard not to undulate when pulling down extremely hard. But I'm faster underwater than on top in breaststroke. I'm a flyer, so having a separate dolphin pre-kick seems to work better for me. So I will persist.
I would like to Deek every person who does that for taking a 2nd dolphin kick but can't because, thanks to FINA, this is a rule than can not be enforced by humans as the order of judging is supposed to be check the hands THEN check the feet. So if they kick before the hands move, it's impossible to call from the deck.
What potentially goes wrong if you watch the feet first and then check if the arms have started the pull?
I had a very fast time erased at Nats by a DQ for "natural undulation" on my first 25.
DQ'd at Nats??? That freakin blows. My last real race in High School (I think it was finals at sectionals) I double fallstarted and had to watch from the deck. The starter totally dragged it too. I was sooo pissed.
I think it just feels more natural to dive, streamline for two counts, pull, then kick, then sneak my hands up and start pulling. If I were to do a kick before or at the start of my pull, I'd feel compelled to do another as I finished my pull.
Found this video on youtube while researching breaststroke drills:
YouTube- Swimming - Breaststroke - Underwater Pull, Power Phase
For those not able to see the video, the gist is: The dolphin kick can start with any parallel or downward motion of the hands (per the video).
Does this rule interpretation apply to USMS? Hopefully someone with authoritative knowledge can give their .02... As I am setting up my drill/practice routines I'd like to do it the right way : ).
Thanks :bow: to any or all guru's who reply!
Chris
Yes, FINA rules apply here.
Did anyone see Gangloff's start on Sunday in the 4 X 100 medley relay? I watched it a few times in slow mo. I could not see any movement of his hands prior to his downward dolphin kick. The camera was to the side however. I have to think it was totally legal given a swimmer of his calibre but I still scratched my head.
wolf - what's your take on that?
