Masters coaches, learning bad habits?

I'm with the "others" comment Taruky makes above. You can get great advice from other swimmers you swim casually with, and sometimes even from a person you notice is watching you from the deck. Again, that "second" set of eyes provides great advantage. Watching others swim lets your second set of eyes not only help them, but you will see things that you should ask about, or try yourself. A coach is just another "other", although good to great coaches make the effort to learn new things and also to learn how to communicate those things to their swimmers.

Don't swim for a coach that you can't get along with, but if you can get along with the coach, you can probably get a lot out of training with a team, even if the coach is not a technician. A coach can see the back of your head, you can't. It is amazing how useful that can be. Don't forget the swimmers next to you. I have a smooth stroke, so other swimmers at practice will sneak a peek at what I am doing under the water to try to figure out how to make their stroke smoother. I also sneak a peek at the swimmers in the lane next to me, and do my best to pass them. Win-win. :) I would say training with others provides as much benefit as a coach most days.

I'm with the "others" comment Taruky makes above. You can get great advice from other swimmers you swim casually with, and sometimes even from a person you notice is watching you from the deck. Again, that "second" set of eyes provides great advantage. Or, in my case, where I am the lone USMS swimmer at a pool with nothing but noodlers lurking about, my non-swimmer husband and our point-and-shoot digital camera (with video capabilities) has been a great second set of eyes! :applaud: In between my (very part-time) private coaching at another pool in the next county, having my husband record me has provided great instant feedback. He's even watching the Pan Pacs with me and looking over my shoulder when I watch instructional videos (Go Swim, for example), so he can help watch for things I'm trying to fix in my strokes. Then, we watch my videos together and I point out what I'm still doing wrong and show him how I want to do it, instead. (Example: Keep a lower profile in my fly arm recovery, like Phelps, so my shoulders survive for the long haul.) Seriously, if you have never been recorded swimming, try to get somebody recording not only your strokes and races, but drills, as well. :) (As an extra bonus, my coach got in the pool, swam along with me, and recorded me with his underwater digital camera, during our last session. The camera picked up flaws in my fly and backstroke that he hadn't caught topside, so it was a huge help! It was a nice addition to the analysis done on my breaststroke by "The Athlete Village", at Nationals.)

As a masters coach, I appreciate being able to communicate with adult athletes and working together to find the best technique option for their strengths, ability level and goals. I thought Glenn Mills at GoSwim.tv had great question of the week posts that also address this issue. www.goswim.tv/.../swimming-question-of-the-week---august-4-2010.html Posted by Glenn Mills on Aug 04, 2010 09:43AM "Been doing a lot of teaching lately, and working with tons of swimmers. Getting swimmers from all over the world and watching what they're taught (or not taught) on a daily basis, I started to wonder about the next two questions. While this isn't meant as an indictment of anyone, because both parties ultimately have a lot of responsibility, it's just that sometimes, one way or another, too much credit is given or taken by one side." Question 1) Can a poor swimmer improve with a poor coach? Question 2) Can a great swimmer thrive with a poor coach? "I know we all want to play nice, and try to pretend there are no "poor coaches" out there, but having been in the sport for more than 40 years, I can tell you... there are many. I'll give my definition of a poor coach: Lazy, uneducated, and unmotivated to learn. In every profession, these people exist, so let's not kid ourselves into thinking that just because someone is giving kids sets, that they're really involved. The initial point of this question was fairly simple... to understand that there ARE poor coaches, and that poor swimmers will have to go outside the boundaries of their coach to learn how to improve. It's something I encourage every swimmer I work with to achieve.... study your own stroke SO much, that eventually, NOBODY can tell you something about what you're doing that you don't already know. This includes great coaches. As far as great swimmers thriving under a poor coach? Absolutely. What is a "great swimmer"? Don't think about this just in terms of how fast someone is, think of it as someone who has reached their physiological potential. I think that's absolutely great, and as I tell my own swimmers again... a monkey can write the practice... a committed athlete will get something out of it. Not taking anything away from coaches, just making sure we all understand that ultimately, the responsibility for performance lies in the swimmers hands. If they're motivated, they can overcome a non-perfect situation." And Part 2 the next week: www.goswim.tv/.../swimming-question-of-the-week---august-11-2010.html Question 1) Can a poor swimmer become great with a great coach? Question 2) Can a great swimmer thrive with a great coach? "How come nobody wants to comment on the questions about the "great coach" compared to the comments about the poor coach? :) My take on part 1. A coach can NOT create a great swimmer. Depending on your definition of a "great swimmer", the coach CAN inspire the swimmer to reach their potential both technically and physiologically... but can a great coach take anyone off the street, even if they're extremely motivated, and put them on the Olympic Team? Doubtful. There is still some innate skills that some people have, that others won't be able to get. Does this mean if you're not born with those skills, you should just give up? Absolutely NOT. Again, reaching your potential is the toughest journey of all, and just because someone doesn't become world famous, or break world records, doesn't stop them from becoming great in my book. So... #1 was really to see how we all determine what "great" is. For the second part, there are SO many issues involved at the top levels of the sport, and if you look at the top swimmers, and top coaches, you now are dealing with very successful people. People who are incredibly driven, and who generally don't accept much less than the ultimate effort and sacrifice. Because of this, also understand that there is much stress and tension that come with being the best. Unless the "great" coach and "great" swimmer understand that they're both after the same thing... conflict can bring them both down. It's only wine and roses when everything works... and it takes sometimes months, or years to get to that point. On that road, striving for the ultimate in anything (reaching your potential), there is much struggle for the hope that that ONE day... it all comes together. It's a total balancing act until that day, and sometimes a very fragile relationship. Basically... the tough part about greatness working with greatness is sometimes people that are too much alike don't always fit together. In other words... it's NEVER easy. :) "

The right coach is one that will take what you do and fine tune it to make it faster. Not try to totally change your stroke to make it "theirs". Exactly! And, the right coach will teach you WHAT to do, based on your physical limitations, even if it's completely different than what he does himself. My coach has taught me shoulder-friendly strokes so I can (hopefully) stay in the pool well into old age without looking like: :cane:

I second (or third) the option of other swimmers watching or even video taping your self and posting it here for advice. I have a great coach. He and I get along very well. We're close in age, similar interests, etc. Do I follow everything he says? No (sorry Jeremy). I take everything he says in to consideration and try it but some things he has us try are too hard on my shoulders or doesn't feel right to me so I make adjustments. He knows this and is okay with it. The right coach is one that will take what you do and fine tune it to make it faster. Not try to totally change your stroke to make it "theirs".

Even with a bad coach or no coach you can get tips from other swimmers swimming around you. I swim on my own but when I go to meets I have a few friends who are more than willing to help me out with things they notice and tips on ways to improve. Every time I am in the pool and notice something on someone elses stroke I will ask if they would like to hear my observation and suggestion. Other swimmers in the pool can actually see you more from under water than above and you can get great tips sometimes. Consider the source though. Ultimately it comes down to educating yourself and being open to others comments.

Sometimes a combination of swimming with a group and swimming alone is the answer. I have had times in my swimming career where I did not have access to a good coach. I went to a distance based workout twice a week and swam on my own or with an informal group three days a week. i got the condtioning I needed with the group, but when I swam alone, I could work on stroke or race specific sets. I coach as well as swim and I like it when my swimmers bring me an article or give me a link to a good article. It's nice to discuss technique. We have also watched a video as a group, then tried to incorporate the technique. You can make it work.