The two people I personally know who care most about the FINA suit change rulings are Leslie The Fortress Livingston. For all I know, you may well care about this even more than we do, but I don't know you, or if I do, you have not made clear your miseries about the suit changes.
In any event, I have been arguing to Leslie that I think the new rules will have a much greater effect on men than women, who get to continue to wear what is basically pretty dab nab near to an original textile tech suit (whereas we are back to the old jammer or briefs of the Mark Spitz era.)
Now that data from this year and last year has begun filtering in, I stand by this, but with less assurance than I once did.
In any event, here -- gleaned from the event rankings part of USMS --are the results from the 800 LCM free in my age group and Leslie's former age group from last summer.
Both include worlds and nationals times. The results are eye-opening. This year's winning time would have placed 10th last year in the men.
This year's winning time for women would have placed 3rd last year for women.
I know this is not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison, but it does suggest that our little flowers, once again, are proving to be the chief beneficiaries of about just every possible advantage that exists in the 21st Century!
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Wood, Larry W 56 *10:16.54* TXLA *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Guadagni, Peter M 55 *10:22.64* WCM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Martin, Jack R 59 *10:25.41* 1776 *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*4* *Wasserman, Neil R 55 *10:41.26* O*H* *Cleveland State University LCM
*5* *Hale, Dave 55 *10:52.61* SRM *Pacific Masters Long Course Championships
*6* *Wright, Robert E 56 *10:55.70* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*7* *Thompson, Frank L 59 *11:04.24* MICH *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Penn, William J 59 *11:06.07* PNA *2010 Northwest Zone LCM
*9* *Ditolla, Robert J 56 *11:08.65* ARIZ *2010 AZ Masters LCM State Championship
*10* *Leonard, Dan P 56 *11:10.48* SCAQ *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Mann, Michael T 55 *9:00.09* CMS *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*2* *Townsend, R Scott 56 *9:42.16* LVM *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*3* *Gandee, Brad 55 *9:57.82* GMUP *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*4* *Wood, Larry W 55 *10:00.88* TXLA *South Central Zone Long Course Championships
*5* *Clemmons, Jim 59 *10:02.32* MAM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*6* *Bell, Alan 59 *10:03.20* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*7* *Dodson, Phil L 56 *10:04.87* IM *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*8* *Martin, Jack R 58 *10:11.61* 1776 *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *Penn, William J 58 *10:16.08* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*10* *Nunnelly, John N 56 *10:18.04* NEM *Bay State Games
#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Krattli, Caroline 48 *10:15.24* SDSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Welting, Laureen K 45 *10:17.33* TOC *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Dantzler, Amy L 46 *10:21.02* WH2O *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*4* *Bennett, Ellen K 47 *10:27.32* SYSM *Bumpy Jones International Classic & Dixie Zone LCM Championships
*5* *Matherne, Susan K 48 *10:30.59* RICE *FCST Luck of the Draw
*6* *Parker Palace, Kelly 49 *10:31.27* UNAT *2010 New England LMSC LCM Championships
*7* *Shuck, Susie 45 *10:32.32* ISF *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Ramnath, Fernette P 45 *10:34.02* SYSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*9* *Milanese, Barbara A 48 *10:42.63* GOLD *5th Annual June Krauser Summer Splash
*10* *Schickore, Jutta 46 *10:51.33* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Curran, Margee M 48 *9:47.56* WCM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*2* *Elias-Williams, Maria L 45 *10:00.40* GSMS *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*3* *Petersen, Charlotte 45 *10:18.31* SPM *2009 St. Pete Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*4* *Swanson, Vibeke L 48 *10:38.78* 1776 *2009 Merryman LCM Swim Meet
*5* *Castro, Leticia 49 *11:03.98* GOLD *JK Summer Splash-Dixie Zone Championship
*6* *Fitzgerald, Kimberly H 49 *11:09.58* WMAC *Wisconsin Badger State Games
*7* *Ciampa, Cindy 49 *11:15.52* SKY *2009 SwimLouisville.com Masters Invitational
*8* *Gregory, Ellen D 45 *11:21.90* ISF *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *DeLozier, Anna R 46 *11:23.77* ARIZ *Arizona Long Course State Meet
*10* *Uecker, Anne 49 *11:30.50* MESC *NE LCM Championship
Linsday posted an interesting link in another thread:
www.swimmingscience.net/.../gender-and-age-effects-for-master.html
Of interest here is the age effect on records and participation. Here is one paragraph from the website:
"Well, the results are as expected: as you get older in your age group, less athletes participate and less records are broken. The researchers believed males had a larger age effect than females due to other studies that found males are more competitive and are more concerned with winning. This is believed to be more true in older competitors where the chances of breaking a record or winning is higher due to the lower number of participants."
I noticed that a large number of new records at nationals were set by people new to their age group:
www.usms.org/.../records.pdf
The effect this year may be exacerbated by "the suit effect" to some degree: the new/youngest members of an age group are in the best position to challenge records set with the now-illegal super-suits.
Please see the following study on how the different suit configurations and the amount of coverage affects the drag. (Textile Suits)
See specifically page 4.
Mollendorf, Joseph C., Albert C. Termin II, Eric Oppenheim, and David R. Pendergast. “Effect of Swim Suit Design on Passive Drag.” Medicine & Science in Sport & Exercise 9. (May 2004): 1-7.
Thanks for the fascinating citation.
Leslie, note a few excerpts. SA and SK refer to shoulder to ankle and shoulder to knee suits, respectively.
There was significant drag reduction (10–15%) when the
swimmers wore the SA or SK suits compared with the other
suits (Fig. 2, right panel). There was not a statistically significant
difference between the SA and SK suits. The reduction in
total drag occurred, in spite of the observation that DSF increased
by twofold, due to the reduction in DP (37%) and DW
(60–80%). These data support the conclusion that the increased
DSF tripped the boundary layer and that the flow
remained attached to the body past the shoulders, in the transitional
phase, and thus lowered both DP and DW.
The absence of significant drag reduction with drag reducing
suits that start their coverage at the waist implies
that these suits did not lower DSF or trip the boundary layer
or if they did, the effects were not significant. This finding
is interesting because the lower body coverage suits are the
most commonly ordered men’s suits. It is noted that the
measured glide data in Table 1 indicates that the “leg-only”
body suits (WK and WA) showed a significant reduction in
drag compared with the conventional suit (CS). Further from
Table 1, the SA and SK suits were not significantly different
from each other.
Jim's take-away points for Leslie:
1. Your citing that the "loss" of knee to ankle coverage is a major problem is possibly true, but only aesthetically; men of science have determined your new legal Speedo speed suit would not be significantly faster with a bit more material on the lower leg.
2. the major drag reduction seems to start with, and be limited to, the chest.
3. the briefs and jammers to which my sad gender is consigned offer virtually no benefit whatsover in drag reduction.
4. Most importantly, I am, once again, correct. I think we need to have another Between the Lane Lines *** vs. Tat, a tat being, in this case, a male *** uncovered by drag-reducing textile materials.
5. QED, Girls Continue to Get Everything.
5. QED, Girls Continue to Get Everything.
Didn't you just cite an article recently regarding the added difficulty women have losing weight or fighting off weight gain vis-a-vis men?
I haven't read the citation yet. I never said that knee to ankle coverage was a "major" issue though in terms of drag. I said I much preferred it, as I dislike the look and feel of kneeskins. It's fairly obvious that the chest/boobs are the bigger concern!
Stop all your hollering. Women are losing rubber, material and compression as well. And maybe that belly blubber will help you float more, whilst my dryland-induced-muscley physique will now sink like a rock.
I do think that if nothing else, teams of two-egalitarian-minded women should consider agreeing to offer, gratis, back shaving services to their male colleagues who A) cannot reach their backs because of male-induced muscle/joint inflexibility, and B) cannot find anyone they actually know to do this. Though it is certainly not critical, I would furthermore like to request--and please, please, please, keep in mind, this is only a request--that C) the tag-team of girl volunteer shavers be in the younger age groups, preferably 19-24, though 25-29 would be acceptable in a pinch, and D) that they consider wearing matching thong bikinis while providing this spirit-of-egalitarianism service.
Is this asking too much?
Really, if it's asking too much, just tell me, and I will seek solace elsewhere.
While I do not agree with them at all, there are a number of arguments for restoring the super-suits that are worth discussing.
But the "equality" or "fairness" argument is not one of them. At least not until all male masters swimmers are required to get *** implants and bear children.
Event 37 Women 45-49 50 LC Meter Breaststroke
==================================================================
NATL: N 33.98 8/5/2007 CAROLINE KRATTLI
WORLD: W 33.98 8/5/2007 CAROLINE KRATTLI, USA
Name Age Team Seed Finals
==================================================================
1 Krattli, Caroline 48 SDSM 34.66 36.13
Caroline was 2.15 seconds slower this year.
Jim - Caroline's records were set in 2007 when she was exceptionally fit - but not wearing a "rubberized" suit. She always wore a lycra Arena racing suit. Legs only to the knee.
While she is very FAST - she recently retired from her ER nursing staff position and has been world traveling! Not focused on training so much these past few years but still out at a few meets which is great for all of us. Caroline is a marvelous breaststroker - super fun to watch!
I'm another female who agrees with equal coverage for male & females suits.
But it will take many more voices than just ours to ever pass that rule :)
Please see the following study on how the different suit configurations and the amount of coverage affects the drag. (Textile Suits)
See specifically page 4.
Mollendorf, Joseph C., Albert C. Termin II, Eric Oppenheim, and David R. Pendergast. “Effect of Swim Suit Design on Passive Drag.” Medicine & Science in Sport & Exercise 9. (May 2004): 1-7.
Of course, women have remained relatively unaffected by the suit change. For this reason alone, men have lost 50 per cent of support in their quest to be treated equally in the pool.
How many female swimmers do we hear campaigning for men to have the right to wear the same costumes as women? None!
Thanks girls.
Not to mention it was the materials the 2009 suits used that seemed responsible for them being considerably faster than the previous generation of suits. Now that those materials are banned it's not obvious that covering more of the body makes a huge difference like it did with the rubberized suits.
