The two people I personally know who care most about the FINA suit change rulings are Leslie The Fortress Livingston. For all I know, you may well care about this even more than we do, but I don't know you, or if I do, you have not made clear your miseries about the suit changes.
In any event, I have been arguing to Leslie that I think the new rules will have a much greater effect on men than women, who get to continue to wear what is basically pretty dab nab near to an original textile tech suit (whereas we are back to the old jammer or briefs of the Mark Spitz era.)
Now that data from this year and last year has begun filtering in, I stand by this, but with less assurance than I once did.
In any event, here -- gleaned from the event rankings part of USMS --are the results from the 800 LCM free in my age group and Leslie's former age group from last summer.
Both include worlds and nationals times. The results are eye-opening. This year's winning time would have placed 10th last year in the men.
This year's winning time for women would have placed 3rd last year for women.
I know this is not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison, but it does suggest that our little flowers, once again, are proving to be the chief beneficiaries of about just every possible advantage that exists in the 21st Century!
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Wood, Larry W 56 *10:16.54* TXLA *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Guadagni, Peter M 55 *10:22.64* WCM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Martin, Jack R 59 *10:25.41* 1776 *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*4* *Wasserman, Neil R 55 *10:41.26* O*H* *Cleveland State University LCM
*5* *Hale, Dave 55 *10:52.61* SRM *Pacific Masters Long Course Championships
*6* *Wright, Robert E 56 *10:55.70* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*7* *Thompson, Frank L 59 *11:04.24* MICH *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Penn, William J 59 *11:06.07* PNA *2010 Northwest Zone LCM
*9* *Ditolla, Robert J 56 *11:08.65* ARIZ *2010 AZ Masters LCM State Championship
*10* *Leonard, Dan P 56 *11:10.48* SCAQ *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Mann, Michael T 55 *9:00.09* CMS *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*2* *Townsend, R Scott 56 *9:42.16* LVM *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*3* *Gandee, Brad 55 *9:57.82* GMUP *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*4* *Wood, Larry W 55 *10:00.88* TXLA *South Central Zone Long Course Championships
*5* *Clemmons, Jim 59 *10:02.32* MAM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*6* *Bell, Alan 59 *10:03.20* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*7* *Dodson, Phil L 56 *10:04.87* IM *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*8* *Martin, Jack R 58 *10:11.61* 1776 *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *Penn, William J 58 *10:16.08* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*10* *Nunnelly, John N 56 *10:18.04* NEM *Bay State Games
#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Krattli, Caroline 48 *10:15.24* SDSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Welting, Laureen K 45 *10:17.33* TOC *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Dantzler, Amy L 46 *10:21.02* WH2O *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*4* *Bennett, Ellen K 47 *10:27.32* SYSM *Bumpy Jones International Classic & Dixie Zone LCM Championships
*5* *Matherne, Susan K 48 *10:30.59* RICE *FCST Luck of the Draw
*6* *Parker Palace, Kelly 49 *10:31.27* UNAT *2010 New England LMSC LCM Championships
*7* *Shuck, Susie 45 *10:32.32* ISF *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Ramnath, Fernette P 45 *10:34.02* SYSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*9* *Milanese, Barbara A 48 *10:42.63* GOLD *5th Annual June Krauser Summer Splash
*10* *Schickore, Jutta 46 *10:51.33* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Curran, Margee M 48 *9:47.56* WCM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*2* *Elias-Williams, Maria L 45 *10:00.40* GSMS *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*3* *Petersen, Charlotte 45 *10:18.31* SPM *2009 St. Pete Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*4* *Swanson, Vibeke L 48 *10:38.78* 1776 *2009 Merryman LCM Swim Meet
*5* *Castro, Leticia 49 *11:03.98* GOLD *JK Summer Splash-Dixie Zone Championship
*6* *Fitzgerald, Kimberly H 49 *11:09.58* WMAC *Wisconsin Badger State Games
*7* *Ciampa, Cindy 49 *11:15.52* SKY *2009 SwimLouisville.com Masters Invitational
*8* *Gregory, Ellen D 45 *11:21.90* ISF *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *DeLozier, Anna R 46 *11:23.77* ARIZ *Arizona Long Course State Meet
*10* *Uecker, Anne 49 *11:30.50* MESC *NE LCM Championship
Both include worlds and nationals times.
Worlds times aren't in the USMS database, but there weren't that many U.S. swimmers in Gothenburg so it shouldn't be too difficult to add in those times manually.
The two people I personally know who care most about the FINA suit change rulings are Leslie The Fortress Livingston.
That sentence is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
:agree: I had to read it two or three times to make sure I wasn't missing something.
I think Jim inadvertently revealed that The Fortress is a superhero. Battling evil noodlers by night, etc.
I think Jim inadvertently revealed that The Fortress is a superhero. Battling evil noodlers by night, etc.
I hope so; somebody has to do it!!! :cheerleader:
I think Jim inadvertently revealed that The Fortress is a superhero. Battling evil noodlers by night, etc.
But I no longer have my superhero costume ... :(
The couple times I inadvertently double blogged I was typing on an ipad ...
I'll be interested (Jim is obviously more obsessively interested) in how times are effected. But we need more data. And, yes, I disagree with Jim about the effect on women, and I am deliciously pleased to put an ever so slight *** in his armchair analysis.
There have been myriad theories advanced wrt tech suits: the suits benefit the tall more, the bigger more, the flabbier more, the older more, those with poor kicks more, those with less core strength more, those who do evilstroke more, those swimming long course more, that lack of tech suits will hurt those that rely on the SDK, those that are muscular or overweight will be negatively effected, etc.
Someone mentioned that they thought it effected sprint free the most; I'm inclined to think it effects that the least. At Zones, I experimented with two 50 free SCY. There was a .4 difference between a full body Jaked and a speedo kneeskin.
From what I have gleaned from the limited data, there may be up to a second difference in times in a 50 LCM. (e.g., speedy 50 fly record holder in my age group from last year in Indy to this year in PR).
I think waiting to see next year's SCY times will offer a better comparison set.
For one, there is always a much richer data set for SCY than LCM.
In addition, I posit that Indy in 2009 offered a much more attractive racing option* than either Sweden or Puerto Rico, resulting in more focused training for that meet and greater competition at the meet. I think this is an additional accelerating factor that would need to be considered when comparing 2009 vs 2010 LCM times.
On the face of it, I agree with Jim's hypothesis. However, unless we're going to come back to more suit for men or return to tech suits, it's really an academic exercise that doesn't much matter in the real world.
Just Race.
* Personally, I'd rather vacation in either PR or Sweden; this is merely a comment about the best racing venue.
That sentence is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.
:agree: I had to read it two or three times to make sure I wasn't missing something.
I wonder if this has anything to do with Leslie The Fortress Livingston posting her blog twice each day? :dunno: :)
I have been saying this since I heard of the proposed changes ! It would be more fair if the same sq/ft of material were allowed for each gender & let the suit makers determine how to make the gender related suit to fit the rules!
