The two people I personally know who care most about the FINA suit change rulings are Leslie The Fortress Livingston. For all I know, you may well care about this even more than we do, but I don't know you, or if I do, you have not made clear your miseries about the suit changes.
In any event, I have been arguing to Leslie that I think the new rules will have a much greater effect on men than women, who get to continue to wear what is basically pretty dab nab near to an original textile tech suit (whereas we are back to the old jammer or briefs of the Mark Spitz era.)
Now that data from this year and last year has begun filtering in, I stand by this, but with less assurance than I once did.
In any event, here -- gleaned from the event rankings part of USMS --are the results from the 800 LCM free in my age group and Leslie's former age group from last summer.
Both include worlds and nationals times. The results are eye-opening. This year's winning time would have placed 10th last year in the men.
This year's winning time for women would have placed 3rd last year for women.
I know this is not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison, but it does suggest that our little flowers, once again, are proving to be the chief beneficiaries of about just every possible advantage that exists in the 21st Century!
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Wood, Larry W 56 *10:16.54* TXLA *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Guadagni, Peter M 55 *10:22.64* WCM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Martin, Jack R 59 *10:25.41* 1776 *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*4* *Wasserman, Neil R 55 *10:41.26* O*H* *Cleveland State University LCM
*5* *Hale, Dave 55 *10:52.61* SRM *Pacific Masters Long Course Championships
*6* *Wright, Robert E 56 *10:55.70* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*7* *Thompson, Frank L 59 *11:04.24* MICH *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Penn, William J 59 *11:06.07* PNA *2010 Northwest Zone LCM
*9* *Ditolla, Robert J 56 *11:08.65* ARIZ *2010 AZ Masters LCM State Championship
*10* *Leonard, Dan P 56 *11:10.48* SCAQ *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Mann, Michael T 55 *9:00.09* CMS *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*2* *Townsend, R Scott 56 *9:42.16* LVM *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*3* *Gandee, Brad 55 *9:57.82* GMUP *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*4* *Wood, Larry W 55 *10:00.88* TXLA *South Central Zone Long Course Championships
*5* *Clemmons, Jim 59 *10:02.32* MAM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*6* *Bell, Alan 59 *10:03.20* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*7* *Dodson, Phil L 56 *10:04.87* IM *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*8* *Martin, Jack R 58 *10:11.61* 1776 *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *Penn, William J 58 *10:16.08* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*10* *Nunnelly, John N 56 *10:18.04* NEM *Bay State Games
#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Krattli, Caroline 48 *10:15.24* SDSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Welting, Laureen K 45 *10:17.33* TOC *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Dantzler, Amy L 46 *10:21.02* WH2O *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*4* *Bennett, Ellen K 47 *10:27.32* SYSM *Bumpy Jones International Classic & Dixie Zone LCM Championships
*5* *Matherne, Susan K 48 *10:30.59* RICE *FCST Luck of the Draw
*6* *Parker Palace, Kelly 49 *10:31.27* UNAT *2010 New England LMSC LCM Championships
*7* *Shuck, Susie 45 *10:32.32* ISF *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Ramnath, Fernette P 45 *10:34.02* SYSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*9* *Milanese, Barbara A 48 *10:42.63* GOLD *5th Annual June Krauser Summer Splash
*10* *Schickore, Jutta 46 *10:51.33* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Curran, Margee M 48 *9:47.56* WCM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*2* *Elias-Williams, Maria L 45 *10:00.40* GSMS *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*3* *Petersen, Charlotte 45 *10:18.31* SPM *2009 St. Pete Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*4* *Swanson, Vibeke L 48 *10:38.78* 1776 *2009 Merryman LCM Swim Meet
*5* *Castro, Leticia 49 *11:03.98* GOLD *JK Summer Splash-Dixie Zone Championship
*6* *Fitzgerald, Kimberly H 49 *11:09.58* WMAC *Wisconsin Badger State Games
*7* *Ciampa, Cindy 49 *11:15.52* SKY *2009 SwimLouisville.com Masters Invitational
*8* *Gregory, Ellen D 45 *11:21.90* ISF *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *DeLozier, Anna R 46 *11:23.77* ARIZ *Arizona Long Course State Meet
*10* *Uecker, Anne 49 *11:30.50* MESC *NE LCM Championship
...I think the biggest advantage over the tech suit ban is that it helps level the field economically...so many can not afford tech suitsThe tech suit ban has made the economic situation FAR WORSE ... now we have 'tech suits' for both men and women that are almost as expensive as the old tech suits with a much shorter lifespan. As both a swim parent and masters' swimmer, the tech suit ban (e.g., getting rid of long-lasting, durable suits like B70 nero comp) has been financially detrimental.
The tech suit ban has made the economic situation FAR WORSE ... now we have 'tech suits' for both men and women that are almost as expensive as the old tech suits with a much shorter lifespan. As both a swim parent and masters' swimmer, the tech suit ban (e.g., getting rid of long-lasting, durable suits like B70 nero comp) has been financially detrimental.
Agree. The super suits were around long enough for them to become part of swimming. Kids still want the fastest suits for the championship meets. Part of me wonders if the suit companies organized this whole fiasco to make even more money since the new suits are horrible.
Yeah, we've gotten acclimated to "buying speed." Although I went the cheap route this summer and opted for a $50 FS Pro jammer rather than one of the $200+ models. I just can't believe the more expensive ones are that much faster.
Part of me wonders if the suit companies organized this whole fiasco to make even more money since the new suits are horrible.
Horrible AND EXPENSIVE! :eek: I had sticker shock when I was reading the reviews in Swimmer Magazine! I'll stick with my scary Speedo for now... :afraid:
It's not clear to me how it's not "fair." Women and men compete separately, after all, and women have always worn different suits.
Yeah, I agree; men and women have separate races. Men don't have the chest drag that women do...
I think the biggest advantage over the tech suit ban is that it helps level the field economically...so many can not afford tech suits
The tech suit ban has made the economic situation FAR WORSE ... now we have 'tech suits' for both men and women that are almost as expensive as the old tech suits with a much shorter lifespan. As both a swim parent and masters' swimmer, the tech suit ban (e.g., getting rid of long-lasting, durable suits like B70 nero comp) has been financially detrimental.
I agree with your comments, but I do question the efficacy of these $250+ tech jammers, particularly in comparison to something like a $50 aquablade jammer. Perhaps the reality of the situation is that the person wearing the spendy tech suit has far less of a "tech advantage" over the person wearing the budget suit than was true in the B70 Nero era. Furthermore, if the performance gap between the $250 and $50 jammer is as narrow as I think it might be, I won't feel so bad for being cheap and skipping on the latest tech suit models.
:worms:
Yeah, we've gotten acclimated to "buying speed." Although I went the cheap route this summer and opted for a $50 FS Pro jammer rather than one of the $200+ models. I just can't believe the more expensive ones are that much faster.Yeah, for me, as a guy, I don't think I'll up-spend for a fancy jammer as the surface area is just too small to matter. However, my eldest daughter, now entering the Sectional-level of swimming sees all of her pals wearing the latest $300+ tech suits. I'd be OK with it if it were a neoprene-ized B70 as I know they last, but I watched one of her 13-year old friends go through 3 LZR PROs over the course of 2 meets. There goes $750 for that family. :bitching:
...I often wonder how people (men and women) at the very top manage to get in 40 hours of work, train, compete, dither around on USMS discussion boards, AND get all the parenting and house-related stuff taken care of. It's possible that one or the other of these things is being done by someone else. Or maybe they're just more talented and get phenomenal results with a regular amount of working out. Or maybe it's something else entirely!
...I don't have articles to reference, but I have read (admittedly ego-supporting) articles that state that busy people are more productive; perhaps that's intuitive or counter-intuitive, but the gist is that the more you try to do, the more deadlines you impose on yourself, the more you get done. Yes, there is a breaking point, but deadlines in one area of your life help you accomplish more in another area of your life. So, if I want to get my physical working out and parenting/home responsibilities in during a week, I force myself to get my professional work done in 45 to 55 hours in a week, rather than the 55 to 65 hours that a number of my colleagues put in. Ten hours saved at the office amounts to a great amount of working out in a week.
The other reason could be this: we're mono-dimensional swim dorks.
Having switched from Tyr Tracer Light leggings to Tyr Tracer Light jammers, I can report that there isn't much difference. I determine the quality of my swims, not my suit.
we're mono-dimensional swim dorks.
:agree:
Which brings me to another gender-oriented pet peeve of mine, i.e., that masters swimming is for women a bit like pro tennis. There are a few exceptionally fast swimmers at the top--the Leslies, the Eneys, the Karlyns, the Laura Vals. Call these the Williams sisters of masters swimming.
But the depth drops off very quickly from there.
Unlike the male ranks, where savage executioners await to capitalize on every possible mistake to knock yeoman like me from the most tenuous of holds upon a Top 10 spot!
As Chris notes, there are simply more competitive male swimmers than women. I think this is largely due to the reasons Gigi mentions above. Being a mommy and having mommy guilt can be decidedly different than being a daddy (at least for my generation and in my own experiential realm). :bolt::worms:
However, I disagree with Jim that there is no depth in certain women's age groups. The 40-44 and 45-49 age groups are unbelievably fast. Pulling one event from LCM Nats, as Jim does, doesn't really disprove this. And this LCM meet is not well attended. Take a look at SCY times ...
You men need to stop whining about losing your belly covers. Sheesh. There will be, and has been, a difference in women's times too. And we have flab in more spots than just the belly.
