The two people I personally know who care most about the FINA suit change rulings are Leslie The Fortress Livingston. For all I know, you may well care about this even more than we do, but I don't know you, or if I do, you have not made clear your miseries about the suit changes.
In any event, I have been arguing to Leslie that I think the new rules will have a much greater effect on men than women, who get to continue to wear what is basically pretty dab nab near to an original textile tech suit (whereas we are back to the old jammer or briefs of the Mark Spitz era.)
Now that data from this year and last year has begun filtering in, I stand by this, but with less assurance than I once did.
In any event, here -- gleaned from the event rankings part of USMS --are the results from the 800 LCM free in my age group and Leslie's former age group from last summer.
Both include worlds and nationals times. The results are eye-opening. This year's winning time would have placed 10th last year in the men.
This year's winning time for women would have placed 3rd last year for women.
I know this is not even close to an apples-to-apples comparison, but it does suggest that our little flowers, once again, are proving to be the chief beneficiaries of about just every possible advantage that exists in the 21st Century!
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Wood, Larry W 56 *10:16.54* TXLA *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Guadagni, Peter M 55 *10:22.64* WCM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Martin, Jack R 59 *10:25.41* 1776 *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*4* *Wasserman, Neil R 55 *10:41.26* O*H* *Cleveland State University LCM
*5* *Hale, Dave 55 *10:52.61* SRM *Pacific Masters Long Course Championships
*6* *Wright, Robert E 56 *10:55.70* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*7* *Thompson, Frank L 59 *11:04.24* MICH *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Penn, William J 59 *11:06.07* PNA *2010 Northwest Zone LCM
*9* *Ditolla, Robert J 56 *11:08.65* ARIZ *2010 AZ Masters LCM State Championship
*10* *Leonard, Dan P 56 *11:10.48* SCAQ *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Mann, Michael T 55 *9:00.09* CMS *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*2* *Townsend, R Scott 56 *9:42.16* LVM *Conejo Simi Aquatics LCM Regional and Zone Champs
*3* *Gandee, Brad 55 *9:57.82* GMUP *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*4* *Wood, Larry W 55 *10:00.88* TXLA *South Central Zone Long Course Championships
*5* *Clemmons, Jim 59 *10:02.32* MAM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*6* *Bell, Alan 59 *10:03.20* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*7* *Dodson, Phil L 56 *10:04.87* IM *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*8* *Martin, Jack R 58 *10:11.61* 1776 *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *Penn, William J 58 *10:16.08* PNA *Gil Young Memorial LCM Meet/Northwest Zone Long Course Meters Meet
*10* *Nunnelly, John N 56 *10:18.04* NEM *Bay State Games
#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Krattli, Caroline 48 *10:15.24* SDSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*2* *Welting, Laureen K 45 *10:17.33* TOC *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*3* *Dantzler, Amy L 46 *10:21.02* WH2O *FAST Masters LCM Regional and Zone Championships
*4* *Bennett, Ellen K 47 *10:27.32* SYSM *Bumpy Jones International Classic & Dixie Zone LCM Championships
*5* *Matherne, Susan K 48 *10:30.59* RICE *FCST Luck of the Draw
*6* *Parker Palace, Kelly 49 *10:31.27* UNAT *2010 New England LMSC LCM Championships
*7* *Shuck, Susie 45 *10:32.32* ISF *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*8* *Ramnath, Fernette P 45 *10:34.02* SYSM *USMS 2010 Summer National Championships
*9* *Milanese, Barbara A 48 *10:42.63* GOLD *5th Annual June Krauser Summer Splash
*10* *Schickore, Jutta 46 *10:51.33* DOC *34th Lakeside Masters Long Course Invitational
*#* *Name Age Time* Club *Meet
*1* *Curran, Margee M 48 *9:47.56* WCM *2009 Pacific Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*2* *Elias-Williams, Maria L 45 *10:00.40* GSMS *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*3* *Petersen, Charlotte 45 *10:18.31* SPM *2009 St. Pete Masters Long Course Swimming Championships
*4* *Swanson, Vibeke L 48 *10:38.78* 1776 *2009 Merryman LCM Swim Meet
*5* *Castro, Leticia 49 *11:03.98* GOLD *JK Summer Splash-Dixie Zone Championship
*6* *Fitzgerald, Kimberly H 49 *11:09.58* WMAC *Wisconsin Badger State Games
*7* *Ciampa, Cindy 49 *11:15.52* SKY *2009 SwimLouisville.com Masters Invitational
*8* *Gregory, Ellen D 45 *11:21.90* ISF *2009 USMS National Long Course Championships
*9* *DeLozier, Anna R 46 *11:23.77* ARIZ *Arizona Long Course State Meet
*10* *Uecker, Anne 49 *11:30.50* MESC *NE LCM Championship
Of course, women have remained relatively unaffected by the suit change. For this reason alone, men have lost 50 per cent of support in their quest to be treated equally in the pool.
How many female swimmers do we hear campaigning for men to have the right to wear the same costumes as women? None!
Thanks girls.
Here, here!
Personally I don't see the problem with women having different coverage then men, after all they wouldn't be allowed to swim in a male swimsuit.
It seems to me that there is an underlying assumption that the suits give advantage by area covered, implying it was reduced surface drag or buoyancy that produced the advantage. I suspect that most of the advantage was in compression and the "girdle effect". Since the new women's suits don't have zippers and use straps on the back it's not obvious that the additional coverage imparts as much advantage as some here think.
Admittedly, that's partly conjecture on my part, the advantage of the 2009 suits was never thoroughly and scientifically pinned down, but there's a bigger difference between the rubber suits of last year and the current suits than is sometimes recognized in these discussions.
Lindsey, you may be right about this, but I think the data will ultimately prove you wrong. My friend Jack Martin, who is at the PR meet, wrote me on Facebook:
Thought that I was moving faster than I was actually going. The Blue70 advantage is significant. You glide out further on the turns and can recover a bit more. The regular Tech suits were an advantage as well.
I am going to guess for me the Blue70 is worth about 2 seconds per hundred. Some guys lose more time some less.
Shaving and a Tech Text can keep the loss of speed down, but everyone is slower. Women have more coverage and have not slowed quite as much.
Believe it or not, I think you can get used to racing in the new suits and minimize the loss in speed. You don't glide as well off turns and at start w/o the suits.
I will know a little more after the 400 and 100 Freestyle events tomorrow.
He swam the 400 this morning:
4 Martin, Jack R 59 1776 5:05.00 5:05.75
35.47 1:12.95 (37.48)
1:51.65 (38.70) 2:30.86 (39.21)
3:09.52 (38.66) 3:48.45 (38.93)
4:27.80 (39.35) 5:05.75 (37.95)
This is a little over 1 second per 100 slower than last year in a textile speed suit:
9 Martin, Jack R 58 1776 5:04.00 5:00.29 2.00
35.35 1:13.22(37.87) 1:53.00(39.78) 2:32.66(39.66)
3:11.71(39.05) 3:49.36(37.65) 4:25.88(36.52) 5:00.29(34.41)
Of course, last year, Jack made the mistake of swimming next to me and letting me do the pacing for us.
8 Thornton, James 57 ABM 5:03.27 4:58.31 3.00
35.14 1:15.38(40.24) 1:54.79(39.41) 2:34.19(39.40)
3:12.20(38.01) 3:49.58(37.38) 4:25.50(35.92) 4:58.31(32.81)
(Note: my first 200 was 2:34.19; my second 200 was 2:24.22--a 10 second negative split!)
Note: I tried to find a middle-of-the-pack woman who swam the 400 in Leslie's age group this year and last year, but to my astonishment, there were none!
Which brings me to another gender-oriented pet peeve of mine, i.e., that masters swimming is for women a bit like pro tennis. There are a few exceptionally fast swimmers at the top--the Leslies, the Eneys, the Karlyns, the Laura Vals. Call these the Williams sisters of masters swimming.
But the depth drops off very quickly from there.
Unlike the male ranks, where savage executioners await to capitalize on every possible mistake to knock yeoman like me from the most tenuous of holds upon a Top 10 spot!
Of course, women have remained relatively unaffected by the suit change. For this reason alone, men have lost 50 per cent of support in their quest to be treated equally in the pool.
How many female swimmers do we hear campaigning for men to have the right to wear the same costumes as women? None!
Thanks girls.
Here, here!
Personally I don't see the problem with women having different coverage then men, after all they wouldn't be allowed to swim in a male swimsuit.
It seems to me that there is an underlying assumption that the suits give advantage by area covered, implying it was reduced surface drag or buoyancy that produced the advantage. I suspect that most of the advantage was in compression and the "girdle effect". Since the new women's suits don't have zippers and use straps on the back it's not obvious that the additional coverage imparts as much advantage as some here think.
Admittedly, that's partly conjecture on my part, the advantage of the 2009 suits was never thoroughly and scientifically pinned down, but there's a bigger difference between the rubber suits of last year and the current suits than is sometimes recognized in these discussions.
Lindsey, you may be right about this, but I think the data will ultimately prove you wrong. My friend Jack Martin, who is at the PR meet, wrote me on Facebook:
Thought that I was moving faster than I was actually going. The Blue70 advantage is significant. You glide out further on the turns and can recover a bit more. The regular Tech suits were an advantage as well.
I am going to guess for me the Blue70 is worth about 2 seconds per hundred. Some guys lose more time some less.
Shaving and a Tech Text can keep the loss of speed down, but everyone is slower. Women have more coverage and have not slowed quite as much.
Believe it or not, I think you can get used to racing in the new suits and minimize the loss in speed. You don't glide as well off turns and at start w/o the suits.
I will know a little more after the 400 and 100 Freestyle events tomorrow.
He swam the 400 this morning:
4 Martin, Jack R 59 1776 5:05.00 5:05.75
35.47 1:12.95 (37.48)
1:51.65 (38.70) 2:30.86 (39.21)
3:09.52 (38.66) 3:48.45 (38.93)
4:27.80 (39.35) 5:05.75 (37.95)
This is a little over 1 second per 100 slower than last year in a textile speed suit:
9 Martin, Jack R 58 1776 5:04.00 5:00.29 2.00
35.35 1:13.22(37.87) 1:53.00(39.78) 2:32.66(39.66)
3:11.71(39.05) 3:49.36(37.65) 4:25.88(36.52) 5:00.29(34.41)
Of course, last year, Jack made the mistake of swimming next to me and letting me do the pacing for us.
8 Thornton, James 57 ABM 5:03.27 4:58.31 3.00
35.14 1:15.38(40.24) 1:54.79(39.41) 2:34.19(39.40)
3:12.20(38.01) 3:49.58(37.38) 4:25.50(35.92) 4:58.31(32.81)
(Note: my first 200 was 2:34.19; my second 200 was 2:24.22--a 10 second negative split!)
Note: I tried to find a middle-of-the-pack woman who swam the 400 in Leslie's age group this year and last year, but to my astonishment, there were none!
Which brings me to another gender-oriented pet peeve of mine, i.e., that masters swimming is for women a bit like pro tennis. There are a few exceptionally fast swimmers at the top--the Leslies, the Eneys, the Karlyns, the Laura Vals. Call these the Williams sisters of masters swimming.
But the depth drops off very quickly from there.
Unlike the male ranks, where savage executioners await to capitalize on every possible mistake to knock yeoman like me from the most tenuous of holds upon a Top 10 spot!
