Myth #4: The reason you keep the elbows high on the underwater pull is to increase power.
I hear this often from both coaches and swimmers. When one looks at the underwater shots of the world's fastest swimmers, sprint or distance, one finds the recurring position of high underwater elbow, also called Early Vertical Forearm (EVF). The elbows are not just high, they are unusually high...almost in a contorted position with extreme extension (negative angle) of the shoulder joint, particularly when coupled with the body rotation in the opposite direction. it begs the question, can one really be stronger in this almost contorted position? I believe the answer is no. To test this, one can go in the gym and using the Free Motion pulleys, that many gyms now have, pull as much weight down with your arm relatively straight forward, then try it with your arm at the side, shoulder extended and elbow up. You will not be able to pull as much weight in that position. With the shoulder fully extended (negative angle), it is simply not in a good mechanical position of strength.
So if this weird high elbow position is not about power, what is it about? Drag. By changing the position of the arm as it moves through the pull cycle, one can reduce the drag coefficient significantly...not eliminate it. To prove this, kick with fins all out for 25 yards extending one arm above the head and the other straight down toward the bottom of the pool. You will soon learn how significant the drag of your protruding arm becomes when it is at right angles to your long axis. In fact, you will have to work to keep the arm in the position and with any speed at all, it will shake in the water like a palm tree in a hurricane in the Keys. Now try the same drill, but instead of putting your arm straight down, let it protrude straight out to the side but bend the arm 90 degrees at the elbow, as if you were swimming with a high elbow. You will feel considerably less drag in this position. Same arm...different position...a lot less drag.
Now I realize that this is not quite the same as while swimming, when only the upper part of the arm is moving forward throughout nearly the entire underwater part of the pull cycle (In order to cause frontal resistive drag, the object must be moving forward). However, the upper arm is also the largest part of the arm and changing it's orientation in the water also reduces the drag coefficient. Achieving an EVF is simply maintaining the upper arm in a position closest to the line of motion and thus creates the least frontal drag.
The good news is that most coaches are telling you the same thing, pull with your elbows high underwater. Now you know the real reason.
Gary Sr
Former Member
Jim,
I am afraid that even if I had perfected my stroke, my slow-twitch muscles and 36 inch vs 39 inch arms would not have allowed me to ever have been successful competing against my son, except when he was 14 or younger. That is when I gave up on racing against him.
I am completely convinced that the speed coefficient in swimming equal to bicep to bum ratio.
The larger Bic/Bum number is, the faster the swimmer.
The bigger the bicep and the smaller the bum, the faster the swimmer. :banana:
My very scientific :2cents:
I explain we are pushing water not pulling.
/QUOTE]
Exactly!!! For kids easily understand that forces act in pairs, and water (like the pool deck) pushes back.
Do have a list of others to share? I always say the ladder is for the Football, team and chess club. Course. Let me just get in touch with the colleague I used to work with, and I may be able to get the complete program. Could take a week or two but I won't forget.
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I have two questions. One for the theoretician participating to the thread, and one open at large
1. If high elbow main benefit is to cut drag, could the results be seen in term of stroke count? (or is it so minimal that it can't even be seen)
2. Has anyone capable of switching from EVF to a more conventional way of swimming the Free noticed any impact on distance per stroke?
Here is an interesting way to teach a beginner about hand/shoulder position.
I have the swimmer face the side of the pool and ask them to put their hands in front of them on the deck.
I ask them to pull themselves out of the water as far as they can without instruction.
I ask them what happens when they sweep their hands to the side (across their body) while pushing. They move sideways instead of up.
I ask them to do it again with high elbows, then low elbows.
With high elbows I ask them to tell me what they are doing with their shoulders to get the high elbow in place.
Now I ask them to think about where their fingers are pointing to get the best range of motion and push. I explain we are pushing water not pulling.
It is a primitive way of explaining it but it gets the student a reference that they can use mentally.
Further, especially coaching youth. I ask them never to use the ladder and always pull themselves out like they are swimming, I ask them to drop down in the water then pull themselves up fast.
Life is short, swim fly.
I may add to this that while being involved in an AG development program design in the past, deck-side pullups were a mandatory exercise for all. IOW, not only would we ask then to never use the ladder, but this crucial movement was part of the development program. It was part of 50 non-swimming abilities (pushing in torpedo position, jumping in the pool then exit using a pullup x 50, etc)...
Do have a list of others to share? I always say the ladder is for the Football, team and chess club.
Further, especially coaching youth. I ask them never to use the ladder and always pull themselves out like they are swimming, I ask them to drop down in the water then pull themselves up fast. I may add to this that while being involved in an AG development program design in the past, deck-side pullups were a mandatory exercise for all. IOW, not only would we ask then to never use the ladder, but this crucial movement was part of the development program. It was part of 50 non-swimming abilities (pushing in torpedo position, jumping in the pool then exit using a pullup x 50, etc)...
Your hand is nothing more than a paddle and if you can get it in a vertical position sooner and keep it their longer (with everything else being equal) you will win every time. An early vertical forearm differentiates swimmers at every level. The drag force created by moving the hand backward against the water is the most propulsive force in swimming. The lift force or the moving of the hand to and away from the midline of the body can be critical but it is very much less of a propulsive force. With everything else being equal a stronger swimmer who can get their forearm/hand vertical sooner, keep it their longer will win every time. With everything else being equal, a stronger swimmer who can get their forearm/hand vertical sooner, keep it their longer and generate more power will win every time. With everything being equal, a stronger swimmer who can get their forearm/hand vertical sooner, keep it their longer, generate more power and reduce frontal resistance, will win every time. I hope you get my drift. You should never swim with a dropped elbow and should always avoid technical swimming positions that could cause you serious injury, with that being said, every swimmer should try to improve their EVF. I am tempted to say that anyone who believes that an EVF isn’t critical to swimming success is a crackpot, but I won’t.
“Stubbornness does have its helpful features. You always know what you're going to be thinking tomorrow.”
Glen Beaman
Tom, at this point of the thread, we're not comparing EVF with a flawed dropped elbow technique. But rather a more traditional free style technique.. like this one let's say..
YouTube- Free style early warm up pace
In fact, I am violating at least 2 myth busters here. Primo, you can clearly see me flushing water backward until the end of the pull, results of a constant acceleration of the hand, especially by mid body to the end. That explosive push for me, is required to stabilize dps. Secondo, I am not using EVF.
I don't know, I tried it the other day, and hmm... I guess it's a matter of getting used to it, hence the fact that I was wondering if others were successful using it.
I love this site!! I have a coaching friend in Wyoming who has a guest (his wife is (Shane Gould). Anyway he told me that he was shown some coaching strategies that are really unique and he's getting some great results. If I find out anything I share it. I'm going on vacation until the 8th. Talk to you later. Thanks for the insight. Tom
Your hand is nothing more than a paddle
Right!!! And a paddle is merely a lever, which EVF effectively places the load or body in the most advantageous position between the force and the fulcrum. clyde
