With the continued growth in USMS membership, I would submit that it's time to eliminate the regional teams at Nationals. Case in point: NCMS sent a "team" of 123 swimmers to Atlanta, enough to enter A, B, C, and D relays in many events (e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams). It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays, yet local clubs from North Carolina sent as many as thirty or more athletes and could have entered relays on their own as our club (with eight swimmers) did. Swim with the guys you actually train with.
Former Member
i think team points earned (lmsc or regional) should be divided by the number of swimmers that they have participating at said meet.
100 swimmers/ 100 points = 1
25 swimmers/ 50 points = 2
etc, you get the point..... it would even things out (and get more people to enter the 200 fly and 400 im)
That would encourage teams to recruite only those who can place and discourage those who are slower from participating or encourage them to swim unattached. Thereby keeping their numbers down.
This is supposed to be fun for all not just the select few.
i don't know of any team/club/lmsc/workout group within USMS that takes team competition that seriously..... maybe i'm wrong.
anyone that considers a regional club or a local club with 100+ members representing them at a meet against another with "competition" has a strange way of defining that word. (awkward sentence... i know)
Supposedly NCMS entered 77 relays. I thought the intent was participation, not domination. Look, we wanted to win a medal for one of our teammates who was edged out in his individual events. Silly to some, I guess. Anyway, we still had a great time, and it was pretty special swimming a relay with guys who train together every morning at 5:30. Interestingly, one of my teammates was an age group swimmer when I was in college, and we were actually in the same pool with the same coach on Saturday mornings back in 1978.
Look, we wanted to win a medal for one of our teammates who was edged out in his individual events. Silly to some, I guess.
It's not silly. No system is perfect, but I still prefer one that encourages relay participation.
I guess I'm obligated to chime in since I'm on a regional team and the one that apparently is causing the angst. I really don't have a political opinion on the value of regional clubs and it wouldn't bother me either way if they were outlawed. There are a few things I sure do enjoy about the NC team, as follows:
1. It is great to swim with people from across the state that I compete against at every other meet. I was on one relay and it had swimmers from three of our state teams. I really enjoyed that experience. And, it's all about me, not gull.
2. It does make for a great team spirit when you go as a regional team.
3. It is lots of fun to put the beat-down on tiny little Texas teams that have defectors from our super powerful massive regional team. If you swim in NC and leave, we will find you and crush you like we did poor pitiful gull. You are now warned.
Our really large gigantic massive Texas ego crushing swimming machine lost to an equally all-powerful and awesome Geogria team by 18 points. So, take heart, you can still suffer a soul crushing defeat even when you are on a big team.
So, gull, in summary, remember there is no "i" in team but there is an "m" and an "e."
So, gull, in summary, remember there is no "i" in team but there is an "m" and an "e."
I've had this conversation multiple times:
him: there's no I in team!
me: there's also no U.
him:
Sadly, when we had Small, Medium and Large categories there were isolated incidents of teams asking their slower swimmers to stay home. Similarly, some asked for their slower swimmers to switch to Unattached status for the meet so they wouldn't count against the number of swimmers (in case it helped them stay in a smaller category for scoring).
How the heck do coaches get away with this kind of thing???
Oh right... their swimmers let them.
How the heck do coaches get away with this kind of thing???
Oh right... their swimmers let them.
I very respectfully call BS on this. Ahelee, I know you don't mean to put the onus completely on the swimmer for allowing coaches (or other swimmers?) to engage in that sort of behavior.
But I think of swimmers who are excited to get 1-2 QTs and feel like they've earned a "right" to go to nationals. And then to be told by the coach that they essentially don't belong with the group with which they practice? That's absolutely disgraceful behavior.
I actually like the small/medium/large idea, but in my mind this sort of behavior (which I am sure -- maybe wishful thinking? -- would be quite rare) is enough to use some other system. We went to a straight-up, no categories, system and a number of people from local teams objected to competing (in the team scores) against regional teams. And so here we are.
To address Gull's complaint without banning regional clubs (I don't even know how that would be done), we'd have to have separate categories also for relay placing, just like OW races have categories for wetsuit and non-wetsuit swims. I don't know that I think that is necessary but I'm not sure I would oppose it either. (There would be many more medals to give out though.)
I very respectfully call BS on this. Ahelee, I know you don't mean to put the onus completely on the swimmer for allowing coaches (or other swimmers?) to engage in that sort of behavior.
But I think of swimmers who are excited to get 1-2 QTs and feel like they've earned a "right" to go to nationals. And then to be told by the coach that they essentially don't belong with the group with which they practice? That's absolutely disgraceful behavior.
Hmmm... maybe I am reading this wrong Chris, but I do say that swimmers allow this to happen.
There is NO WAY that this "disgraceful behavior" should be allowed in masters swimming.
But if the swimmer does not report the behavior or at least make it public, it goes on and on and on.
As we are now realizing with the USA Swimming Banned Coaches list, lack of "reporting" has allowed badly behaving coaches to continue working on pool decks for years.
I've heard from several people, that as an adult masters swimmer, the element of fear is removed.
The adult athlete should be able to stand up to any coach. Old habits are hard to break...
But it seems to also be apathy and unwillingness to get involved in a confrontation in an activity that is for fitness and fun.
Heading into lap swimming lanes or finding another club is just plain easier.
The behavior should not be found in any USMS club. But we (USMS) can't control every piece of what clubs do behind closed doors.
Even a Code of Conduct is simply an honor system to a certain extent.
Our regional team beat your regional team, avenging our narrow loss to your regional team last year at Clovis. Send cookies.
Hey That Guy, I can deliver cookies as I will be at T-Hills next weekend. Sadly, Bill elected not to compete, figuring he would be burned out after nats... But I see Bill most early AM's M-F, so if you want to send him anything, I can act as a courier.
