With the continued growth in USMS membership, I would submit that it's time to eliminate the regional teams at Nationals. Case in point: NCMS sent a "team" of 123 swimmers to Atlanta, enough to enter A, B, C, and D relays in many events (e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams). It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays, yet local clubs from North Carolina sent as many as thirty or more athletes and could have entered relays on their own as our club (with eight swimmers) did. Swim with the guys you actually train with.
It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays
And it does. You're singling out one regional team that had a huge number of swimmers as reason for not having regional teams, but what about all the regional teams that were only able to field relays at all because they were a regional team?
I think it's lots of fun to swim relays at Nationals and regional teams encourage more relays.
We have a regional team,OREG that sent over 30 people to Nats.I would not have gone to that Nats as I generally only go to LCM Nats,but OREG made a big push to get a team to go.We are from all over the state,but we are a very close knit group of friends/teammates.
This is a non-starter, IMO. There are still LMSCs that are quite small, rarely have masters meets within their boundaries, and can only field relays if they go as an LMSC "team." And then you have LMSCs with 10,000+ members. One size doesn't fit all.
I don't see why regional clubs should bother anyone -- especially now with the separate scoring categories -- but clearly they continue to do so.
I also don't get the concept of only swimming with the people you practice with. Heck, I met my future wife for the first time on a masters relay (though it wasn't a regional team...she had moved away but still competed for her former team).
Speaking of which: plenty of people move away and keep their old team affiliations, at least for awhile. Should we DQ them because they aren't "swimming with" their current relay mates?
Normally GAJA only sends 8-12 people to Nationals. Most of us are from different clubs. I would not be able to swim relays at most Nationals because normally I am the only one from Savannah Masters to participate. For this nationals even being in Atlanta only 5 of us from Savannah made the journey and of those 5 we would only have been able to do mixed relays.
Regional clubs lets those who would not normally be able to participate in relays do so.
(e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams)
Aren't regional teams scored separately from club teams?
I think giving people the option to swim relays is pretty important. Whatever has to be done to do that, let's do that.
My team participation at a normal meet is typically 2 swimmers. At the yearly relay meet, we field A, B and C relays. Obviously people are more inclined to participate in relays, at least from my team, than on their own.
I am all for increased participation in the sport, even if it hurts my rankings and makes my lane more crowded.
If regional teams hurt participation, or are even neutral to participation, I think you have a solid case for doing away with them. But with 8 teams beating your team, which I don't think your team is slow, indicates that there are a lot of relays that happened because of regional teams.
i think team points earned (lmsc or regional) should be divided by the number of swimmers that they have participating at said meet.
100 swimmers/ 100 points = 1
25 swimmers/ 50 points = 2
etc, you get the point..... it would even things out (and get more people to enter the 200 fly and 400 im)
That would encourage teams to recruite only those who can place and discourage those who are slower from participating or encourage them to swim unattached. Thereby keeping their numbers down.
This is supposed to be fun for all not just the select few.
i think team points earned (lmsc or regional) should be divided by the number of swimmers that they have participating at said meet.
100 swimmers/ 100 points = 1
25 swimmers/ 50 points = 2
etc, you get the point..... it would even things out (and get more people to enter the 200 fly and 400 im)
I think Gull's basic complaint isn't based on team scoring but on relay places. All those A/B/C/D relays from mega-regional teams would still tend to place ahead of local teams.
I can understand his point, but I still think it is worth doing.
I've read many different threads about Nationals scoring here and on the Nationals forum over the years. I've seen different arguments for and against the current system, super-teams, super-relays, various proposed rule changes, etc. And I've arrived at my conclusion. I JUST DON'T CARE. I don't know which team won at Atlanta. I don't know how my regional team did score-wise. Was the meet even scored this year? I don't know. There were many amazing swims, that's what's interesting to me. When someone gets really worked up about Nationals scoring (which in fairness, doesn't seem to be the case in this thread), even if I don't respond, rest assured that I'm laughing. Come over to the dark side, we have cookies :D
Gull,
Recruit faster swimmers & you'll place better on relays at Nats, but not too many or you might recruit yourself off the relay.
At longhorn, we're fortunate to have many former college swimmers and top notch triathletes who like to train in the UT pool. It's tough to get a few of them to meets. Plus there's many swimmers who swam for UT & Longhorn Aquatics in the past.
Ande
With the continued growth in USMS membership, I would submit that it's time to eliminate the regional teams at Nationals. Case in point: NCMS sent a "team" of 123 swimmers to Atlanta, enough to enter A, B, C, and D relays in many events (e.g. the mens 35+ 200 free relay in which our club team placed 13th behind eight regional teams). It's been argued that the formation of regional teams allows more swimmers to participate in relays, yet local clubs from North Carolina sent as many as thirty or more athletes and could have entered relays on their own as our club (with eight swimmers) did. Swim with the guys you actually train with.
