The IM Lane

To follow up on yesterday's post, I did the following set today: 32x25 @ :45, 8 of each stroke. Although my fly's were steady at 200 pace, I was able to easily hold 100 pace (or slightly faster) for each of the other strokes. In addition, I was able to keep my stroke technique strong throughout the entire set. Next time out, perhaps I should shorten the interval to :40. Although the set wasn't easy, it wasn't hard either. What are your thoughts on this? Did I get too much rest at an interval of :45 for it to be of benefit?

To follow up on yesterday's post, I did the following set today: 32x25 @ :45, 8 of each stroke. Although my fly's were steady at 200 pace, I was able to easily hold 100 pace (or slightly faster) for each of the other strokes. In addition, I was able to keep my stroke technique strong throughout the entire set. Next time out, perhaps I should shorten the interval to :40. Although the set wasn't easy, it wasn't hard either. What are your thoughts on this? Did I get too much rest at an interval of :45 for it to be of benefit? That sounds like a good set for IM; I mentioned the 40 x 25 set for one stroke b/c I know you mentioned swimming the 200s and I think that, applying some of the ultra-short race-pace training principles, 25 is a better distance to do at 200 pace for a long set. When I try to do long sets of 50s I can't hold 200 pace unless the rest interval increases a lot... and then that defeats the idea of ultra-short (i.e., get used to the race-pace by doing lots of shorter intervals with shorter rests; a principle most of us already apply when training for 1500+... lots of 100s at pace, w/ short rest). My training partners and I did a lot of training for the 400 IM over the last year and one of our staple sets became 80 x 25 on :45 IMO; i.e., twenty 25s on each stroke, and we held paces between 100 and 200-goal for most of the set. At :45, each stroke takes 15 minutes... then we would do a 100 recovery swim and start the next stroke on the next :00. This was our Sunday afternoon workout for several months and we saw our 4IM times drop a lot! I was swimming around 7:00 last fall and swam a 6:37 in March, and the only regular feature of my training regimen last spring was that set of 25s (I had a fairly erratic winter-spring w/ illness and life transitions). I know they say USRPT doesn't work the same for IM as for individual strokes, but I think the fatigue you learn to work through in that long set really helps to simulate meet situations, where we struggle to hold form on *** and free, for example, after going out hard in fly and back. Those frees at the end of the set are not easy (we often drop the interval down to :40 or even :30), but you can hold form and pace for 25 (if we had to turn and finish a 50, the form would fall apart really quickly).

That sounds like a good set for IM; I mentioned the 40 x 25 set for one stroke b/c I know you mentioned swimming the 200s and I think that, applying some of the ultra-short race-pace training principles, 25 is a better distance to do at 200 pace for a long set. When I try to do long sets of 50s I can't hold 200 pace unless the rest interval increases a lot... and then that defeats the idea of ultra-short (i.e., get used to the race-pace by doing lots of shorter intervals with shorter rests; a principle most of us already apply when training for 1500+... lots of 100s at pace, w/ short rest). My training partners and I did a lot of training for the 400 IM over the last year and one of our staple sets became 80 x 25 on :45 IMO; i.e., twenty 25s on each stroke, and we held paces between 100 and 200-goal for most of the set. At :45, each stroke takes 15 minutes... then we would do a 100 recovery swim and start the next stroke on the next :00. This was our Sunday afternoon workout for several months and we saw our 4IM times drop a lot! I was swimming around 7:00 last fall and swam a 6:37 in March, and the only regular feature of my training regimen last spring was that set of 25s (I had a fairly erratic winter-spring w/ illness and life transitions). I know they say USRPT doesn't work the same for IM as for individual strokes, but I think the fatigue you learn to work through in that long set really helps to simulate meet situations, where we struggle to hold form on *** and free, for example, after going out hard in fly and back. Those frees at the end of the set are not easy (we often drop the interval down to :40 or even :30), but you can hold form and pace for 25 (if we had to turn and finish a 50, the form would fall apart really quickly). Thanks for the feedback! I would be curious to see how I hold up for 80 (rather than the 32 I swam) x 25. I'll give it a try and see what happens. Since I will be racing 400 IM AND 200's of fly and ***, I'm trying to train for all of them.

This is an interesting question. You started me thinking about it. For fly and back I would think you can train for a 200. For breaststroke, you have already swum 200, so you really need to train for a 300. For free, you start at 300 so you should train for at least a 400. Since fly, back and *** are less efficient than free you will probably be more fatigued at the 300 of the 400im than at 300 of 400 free. Makes me think that you should probably train for 500 free. I'd like to hear others chime in. Anyone else have thoughts? I set that I liked when training for 200 or 400 IM was 2 x (8 x 50 swum as 50 fly,25 fly/25bk, 50 back, 25 bk/25 br, 50 br, 25 br/25 fr, 50 free, 25 fr/25 fly) You get to practice all the turns in this set. Hmmm, you lost me on that first paragraph. I'm not following you. :confused: BUT, I do like your set for training IM. :agree: How much rest in between 50's?

Elaine - my thought is that for a 400 IM you swim 100 fly - but you can't take it out at your 100 fly pace, so it will usually be at your 200 fly pace. For back you have already swum 100 fly, so you are already too tired to swim your 100 back pace, but you can probably swim your 200 back pace. So for fly and back you can train the same as you do for a 200 of each stroke. By the time you get to breaststroke you have already swum 200 yards (or meters). So you are about as tired as you are after a 200 breaststroke - so IMHO you need to train as if you were going to swim a 300 breaststroke. By the time you get to the free style you already have 300 yds in. You are probably more fatigued than if you swam 300 free since the other stroke are not as efficient. So you need to train for 500 free not just 400 free. Hope that makes sense. The amount of rest really depends on the swimmer and your focus for the workout that day. 15-20 seconds rest between 50s maybe for the 400 IM to build endurance. Less rest if you can still hold your desired pace. You might want to go longer rest sometimes to work on speed. I am not a coach and definitely not a fast swimmer so I don't really know what would work for you. I just go with rule of thumb that shorter rest between repeats builds endurance , longer rest lets you swim faster so helps build speed. That's a pretty broad generalization, so there are many people on the forum here that can help you more with the amount of rest. I just like the set because you practice all the turns and I don't get bored in the middle.

Elaine - my thought is that for a 400 IM you swim 100 fly - but you can't take it out at your 100 fly pace, so it will usually be at your 200 fly pace. For back you have already swum 100 fly, so you are already too tired to swim your 100 back pace, but you can probably swim your 200 back pace. So for fly and back you can train the same as you do for a 200 of each stroke. By the time you get to breaststroke you have already swum 200 yards (or meters). So you are about as tired as you are after a 200 breaststroke - so IMHO you need to train as if you were going to swim a 300 breaststroke. By the time you get to the free style you already have 300 yds in. You are probably more fatigued than if you swam 300 free since the other stroke are not as efficient. So you need to train for 500 free not just 400 free. Hope that makes sense. The amount of rest really depends on the swimmer and your focus for the workout that day. 15-20 seconds rest between 50s maybe for the 400 IM to build endurance. Less rest if you can still hold your desired pace. You might want to go longer rest sometimes to work on speed. I am not a coach and definitely not a fast swimmer so I don't really know what would work for you. I just go with rule of thumb that shorter rest between repeats builds endurance , longer rest lets you swim faster so helps build speed. That's a pretty broad generalization, so there are many people on the forum here that can help you more with the amount of rest. I just like the set because you practice all the turns and I don't get bored in the middle. :doh:Now it makes sense! Thanks for clarifying that for me. :D

I've given this some thought, and I have changed my mind- at least until I am more convinced this would be a good set. Why do 20 or 40 in a row of the same stroke? The longest IM is 400, and the longest one-stroke event (other than free) is 200. Since I am training for the 400 IM, 200 fly, and 200 breaststroke, wouldn't it make more sense for me to do 20 x 25 on :45 holding 200 pace and swim it as 5 of each stroke? If I did 40 x 25, I would do 10 of each stroke. If I did 20 or 40 of just fly, I think the negatives (repetitive stress of my shoulders and a reduction of speed would outweigh the positives. I just don't think I would be able to hold pace for that many reps. AND keep my stroke together. At 52 with a past history of repetitive stress injuries, not changing stroke could be an injury inducer. :eek: This is an interesting question. You started me thinking about it. For fly and back I would think you can train for a 200. For breaststroke, you have already swum 200, so you really need to train for a 300. For free, you start at 300 so you should train for at least a 400. Since fly, back and *** are less efficient than free you will probably be more fatigued at the 300 of the 400im than at 300 of 400 free. Makes me think that you should probably train for 500 free. I'd like to hear others chime in. Anyone else have thoughts? I set that I liked when training for 200 or 400 IM was 2 x (8 x 50 swum as 50 fly,25 fly/25bk, 50 back, 25 bk/25 br, 50 br, 25 br/25 fr, 50 free, 25 fr/25 fly) You get to practice all the turns in this set.

Elaine - Here's an article that explains what I was trying to say quite a bit better than I did. It also has a ssample workout. I think you will like it www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../39742.asp

Elaine - Here's an article that explains what I was trying to say quite a bit better than I did. It also has a ssample workout. I think you will like it www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../39742.asp That's excellent- thanks! :applaud: Any idea how I could view and save that workout into something I could read at one glance? It would be nice to print out; however, copying it into Word was a jumbled mess! :dunno:\ Never mind. I'm getting it to work in Word by widening the columns...

Elaine - Here's an article that explains what I was trying to say quite a bit better than I did. It also has a ssample workout. I think you will like it www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/.../39742.asp I did this workout today; however, I (obviously!) need to make adjustments in the intervals in order to give my best efforts when needed. Getting just a few seconds at times would have left me :whiteflag:. Question: How much rest should I allow myself on these intervals? I aimed for 10 seconds most of the time; however, I will admit at times I allowed 15 or 20 to keep from :drowning:.