More Breaststroke help: the pullout

what do you other breaststrokers think? fly kick right after the arms split from streamline (i.e. before the down stroke) or after the downstroke as the arms come to the side? i have always done the latter, but i see some of the fastest breaststrokers in the world do the former. which do some you guys prefer? I'm not a breastroker; more of a flyer. As such, I always pre-kick, i.e., take a strong dolphin kick before the pulldown. From what I've gleaned, if you have a good dolphin kick and streamline, that is faster. If you don't, it's likely better to incorporate the kick in the down stroke. Also, there is a slight risk of a DQ with the pre-kick. When you pull down really hard, there is undulation that can potentially be perceived as a dolphin kick even though it is not. But I gotta take this risk. I tend to do the same thing with my head, Kirk. I think it relates to the primal desire to breathe. But it does create big time drag.

As far as the rest of the pullout goes, a wide out-sweep of the hands really sets up for a powerful pull. What do you mean exactly by this? Placing your hands wide before you begin the pull down or using a wide keyhole type pull down? I didn't think we were supposed to have a sculling motion in the pull down but pull straight like in a fly pull? But what do I know? :)

I do the dolphin with the pullout.Doing it early I go further underwater,but not faster to the 15 Yd mark(I don't have a great dolphin kick.)Being underwater longer is not necessarily an advantage for me as I am more likely to feel oxygen starved and raise my head for the first breath,especially on the last turn of the 200.Also there is a greater chance of DQ with the early kick,but if you have a great dolphin kick it may be worth it.I suspect there will be less advantage to the early kick without tech suits as tech suits really help the glide,we will see.

I was thinking more of the key-hole type pull. We call it a "LOLLIPOP" The beginning or top of the pull is round - the SUCKER - Hands almost coming together under the body then the push downwards is the STICK. Finish by sneaking the hands up from the same place they finished the STICK straight into the streamline. Ande, have you tried this? I think it is better than pulling the hands down and finishing outside the hips. More aero...

When I went to a clinic with an Olympic swimmer many years ago, he explained how he shrugged his shoulders up really hard right at the end of his armpull on his breaststroke pullouts, in order to make himself more streamlined in that hands-by-the-sides position. When he demonstrated this on dry land, he went from looking like someone with a normal neck and head to looking more like a torpedo-shaped object, with his shoulders tucked right up near his ears. Since that demonstration made sense to me, I shrugged my shoulders up at the end of my pull for years, until one day I was swimming outdoors and noticed my shadow on the bottom of the pool. I didn't look anything like a torpedo; instead, shrugging my shoulders merely brought them up from their normal sloping position to a squared-off one, probably unstreamlining me, if anything. I don't think I have enough leeway in my shoulder movement to look torpedo-like when I shrug my shoulders, no matter how forcefully I do it. So while the shrugging thing doesn't work for me, it might be beneficial for those with more shoulder flexibility. Does anyone do this?

When I went to a clinic with an Olympic swimmer many years ago, he explained how he shrugged his shoulders up really hard right at the end of his armpull on his breaststroke pullouts, in order to make himself more streamlined in that hands-by-the-sides position. When he demonstrated this on dry land, he went from looking like someone with a normal neck and head to looking more like a torpedo-shaped object, with his shoulders tucked right up near his ears. Since that demonstration made sense to me, I shrugged my shoulders up at the end of my pull for years, until one day I was swimming outdoors and noticed my shadow on the bottom of the pool. I didn't look anything like a torpedo; instead, shrugging my shoulders merely brought them up from their normal sloping position to a squared-off one, probably unstreamlining me, if anything. I don't think I have enough leeway in my shoulder movement to look torpedo-like when I shrug my shoulders, no matter how forcefully I do it. So while the shrugging thing doesn't work for me, it might be beneficial for those with more shoulder flexibility. Does anyone do this? YES,YES,YES!!! It is much more streamlined for me.

Fantastic thread! I have been playing around with this since we have been allowed to do it. You can go farther faster by doing the dolphin kick after your hands have split. According to my understanding of the rule, all the hands have to do is move before you do the kick, so even if they have not separated, if they have moved then you are good to go. As far as the rest of the pullout goes, a wide out-sweep of the hands really sets up for a powerful pull. You gotta use those big swimmer muscles (lats) to force the water back past your feet. Squeeze everything together when you are in your "slowest" position. This is when your hands are at your side and you have your head exposed. There was a quote before saying that when you start to slow down you need to bring your hands up, but you dont want to slow down. You will have to play with it to realize when you are losing speed. You want to shoot your hands up to a streamline before you slow down. Right as your kick is coming to a snapping finish you want to start your first stroke on the surface. That first stroke sets up the rest of the length. Make sure you are getting as much of your body out and over the surface of the water as possible to make it as easy as possible. I could probably go on for days on how to improve your pullout. But, as I am sitting here sipping on my coffee :anim_coffee: (I love that icon!) I realize that it could get a little confusing. The main thing to remember is that a pullout is different for everyone. You need to play with it and feel for yourself which is best for you. Dont lose speed, and carry your momentum over the surface on your first stroke. Best of luck! Dave:anim_coffee:

I was thinking more of the key-hole type pull. I know that in butterfly (and this is what I teach my swimmers too) it is better to do a straight back pull, but what I have found on pullouts is that you can get a little more pull on the water with a wide sweaping pull and a big push at the end of the pull. But then again, like I said before it is different for everyone. That is just works for me :)

what do you other breaststrokers think? fly kick right after the arms split from streamline (i.e. before the down stroke) or after the downstroke as the arms come to the side? i have always done the latter, but i see some of the fastest breaststrokers in the world do the former. which do some you guys prefer? Nobody seems to DQ the elite swimmers for this, but there are definitely USMS judges that will DQ you unless your arm movement is quite pronounced. I used to do it first and thought it was faster, but went back to doing the kick at the end of my pulldown after getting DQ'd for it. Be careful.