On another thread the question was raised how many people have had swims that did not get reported to Top Ten for what ever reason.Please post here if you have had that experience(venting is allowed.)
I have been swimming Masters since 1974 and my USMS experiences have been overwhelmingly positive and I want to thank all the officials and organizers.None the less accidents happen and I lost top ten swims(one a zone record) at 2 different meets when pool measurements showed the pool was short(once after a remodeling,which lead to the USMS measurement rule,and once when the bulk head slipped.In both cases the pool was 1 cm short.)I had another meet where the results were not reported,but thanks to diligent work from our Top Ten chair(thank you Mary Sweat)the results were recovered.
So who else has lost results.
None the less accidents happen and I lost top ten swims(one a zone record) at 2 different meets when pool measurements showed the pool was short(once after a remodeling,which lead to the USMS measurement rule,and once when the bulk head slipped.In both cases the pool was 1 cm short.)
Since I devote a decent bit of time to this issue, this post may come off as a bit defensive and I apologize, since I find absolutely no fault in Allen's tone, post or this thread. In fact, as the new chair of the Records and Tabulations Committee, I am grateful to Allen for starting this thread since I would like to help fix problems.
But I would like to point out a distinction here that may be useful. Allen points to results that were lost because the course was too short. USMS is fairly strict regarding pool measurements (compared to USA-S) and, although it is certainly a shame to lose TT swims, I think it is actually the correct call. In the instances Allen describes (where the measurements were MADE but the pool was too short), the failing would probably be at the aquatics facility staff level, though the TT recorder and the meet director certainly need to be on top of things and should check the pool beforehand just in case it is possible to make adjustments (eg, position the bulkhead properly).
To incidents to illustrate: the case where the Stanford pool at World Championships was found to be too short (and had to be altered before competition began. And that embarrassing incident a while back where a masters swimmer -- with his own laser measuring device -- at a USA-S meet drew attention to the fact that the pool was short...and several USA-S swimmers lost OT qualifying times as a result.
In any event, when reporting your issues, it would be helpful to me if you explain what went wrong, as far as you know. That's the only way things can improve.
Informational items: it might be helpful to be familiar with the Records & Tabulations Guide to Operations, which is here:
www.usms.org/.../
In particular, I'd like to point out a few common misunderstandings:
-- the Top Ten lists here and the Meet Results Database Rankings (known by a variety of names) here are not the same thing.
-- the Top Ten recorder in an LMSC has a duty to submit results from ALL registered swimmers in meets that occur in his/her LMSC. That includes USMS sanctioned, recognized or USA-S sanctioned meets. You have to be registered at the time of the swim, but you don't have to be registered in the LMSC in which the meet occurs.
Note that TT Rercorders or Meet Directors are not REQUIRED (though they are encouraged) to submit results to the Meet Results Database. This is often a source of confusion. I submit all the results from my LMSC, but I've had many calls from swimmers who have competed in other LMSCs where they don't submit the results. They worry that means the times won't be submitted for TT (actually, they usually confuse the two and assume that the Meet Results Database becomes "hardened" at the end of the season into the TT).
-- the TT recorder is NOT responsible to submit the times for members of his/her LMSC that occur outside the LMSC, unless it is in a foreign (FINA-member sanctioned) meet. If you swim in a USMS meet in another LMSC, it is the responsibility of that LMSC's TT Recorder to submit your time.
-- the TT recorder should be aware of USMS sanctioned/recognized meets in his/her own LMSC, though it never hurts to verify that. But do NOT assume that is true USA-S meets or foreign meets. As the GTO says of these types of meets, "it is the responsibility of the swimmer to bring back the results and documentation and to request that the Top Ten Recorder in his or her local LMSC submit the times."
Particularly in the case of USA-S meets, do not assume that the pool has been certified the proper length; as I mentioned, historically USA-S standards have been more lax than those of USMS though I think that may be changing. It is not a bad idea to check with your TT recorder before the meet happens.
-- USMS maintains a list of pools whose lengths have been certified. Your TT Recorder should know which pools in your LMSC have been certified. If the pool is "permanent" (walls only), then initial certification is all you need. But if a pool has movable bulkheads, the length has to be checked for each swim session. That's a pain, but at least this verification only requires measurements in 3 lanes, unlike initial length certification.
So: fire away. I'll do my best to answer any questions (and I'm sure there are other TT Recorders reading this who may do the same).
None the less accidents happen and I lost top ten swims(one a zone record) at 2 different meets when pool measurements showed the pool was short(once after a remodeling,which lead to the USMS measurement rule,and once when the bulk head slipped.In both cases the pool was 1 cm short.)
Since I devote a decent bit of time to this issue, this post may come off as a bit defensive and I apologize, since I find absolutely no fault in Allen's tone, post or this thread. In fact, as the new chair of the Records and Tabulations Committee, I am grateful to Allen for starting this thread since I would like to help fix problems.
But I would like to point out a distinction here that may be useful. Allen points to results that were lost because the course was too short. USMS is fairly strict regarding pool measurements (compared to USA-S) and, although it is certainly a shame to lose TT swims, I think it is actually the correct call. In the instances Allen describes (where the measurements were MADE but the pool was too short), the failing would probably be at the aquatics facility staff level, though the TT recorder and the meet director certainly need to be on top of things and should check the pool beforehand just in case it is possible to make adjustments (eg, position the bulkhead properly).
To incidents to illustrate: the case where the Stanford pool at World Championships was found to be too short (and had to be altered before competition began. And that embarrassing incident a while back where a masters swimmer -- with his own laser measuring device -- at a USA-S meet drew attention to the fact that the pool was short...and several USA-S swimmers lost OT qualifying times as a result.
In any event, when reporting your issues, it would be helpful to me if you explain what went wrong, as far as you know. That's the only way things can improve.
Informational items: it might be helpful to be familiar with the Records & Tabulations Guide to Operations, which is here:
www.usms.org/.../
In particular, I'd like to point out a few common misunderstandings:
-- the Top Ten lists here and the Meet Results Database Rankings (known by a variety of names) here are not the same thing.
-- the Top Ten recorder in an LMSC has a duty to submit results from ALL registered swimmers in meets that occur in his/her LMSC. That includes USMS sanctioned, recognized or USA-S sanctioned meets. You have to be registered at the time of the swim, but you don't have to be registered in the LMSC in which the meet occurs.
Note that TT Rercorders or Meet Directors are not REQUIRED (though they are encouraged) to submit results to the Meet Results Database. This is often a source of confusion. I submit all the results from my LMSC, but I've had many calls from swimmers who have competed in other LMSCs where they don't submit the results. They worry that means the times won't be submitted for TT (actually, they usually confuse the two and assume that the Meet Results Database becomes "hardened" at the end of the season into the TT).
-- the TT recorder is NOT responsible to submit the times for members of his/her LMSC that occur outside the LMSC, unless it is in a foreign (FINA-member sanctioned) meet. If you swim in a USMS meet in another LMSC, it is the responsibility of that LMSC's TT Recorder to submit your time.
-- the TT recorder should be aware of USMS sanctioned/recognized meets in his/her own LMSC, though it never hurts to verify that. But do NOT assume that is true USA-S meets or foreign meets. As the GTO says of these types of meets, "it is the responsibility of the swimmer to bring back the results and documentation and to request that the Top Ten Recorder in his or her local LMSC submit the times."
Particularly in the case of USA-S meets, do not assume that the pool has been certified the proper length; as I mentioned, historically USA-S standards have been more lax than those of USMS though I think that may be changing. It is not a bad idea to check with your TT recorder before the meet happens.
-- USMS maintains a list of pools whose lengths have been certified. Your TT Recorder should know which pools in your LMSC have been certified. If the pool is "permanent" (walls only), then initial certification is all you need. But if a pool has movable bulkheads, the length has to be checked for each swim session. That's a pain, but at least this verification only requires measurements in 3 lanes, unlike initial length certification.
So: fire away. I'll do my best to answer any questions (and I'm sure there are other TT Recorders reading this who may do the same).
