The following has appeared on a swim forum in the UK
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I’ve been looking at recent masters results. It’s clear that swimmers are producing much slower times without bodysuits. Furthermore, many swimmers are disillusioned and are on the verge of giving up completely. It would be a travesty if these swimmers (they are mostly the over 45s) were lost to the sport altogether.
The majority of masters swimmers prefer to compete in bodysuits. Of that there is no doubt, as witnessed at masters meets up and down the country. It is a disgrace that masters swimmers have been included in the ‘new rules’ concerning elite swimming. I find it quite sad that many swimmers are talking about cutting up their suits, taking out zips and even asking whether they are allowed ‘modesty panels’ in their suits any more.
As always, we are getting no advice, guidance or even leadership from the toothless Masters Committee, whose gingivitic and malocclusive tendencies are attracting Big Nev’s interest, but that’s to be expected.
But it doesn’t have to be like this. Masters swimmers in Italy are not accepting this farce. They are still holding meets where swimmers can choose to wear bodysuits.
There was a recent questionnaire sent out to 4,000 masters swimmers in France. 2,700 swimmers replied, stating they wished to keep their bodysuits for competition.
Masters swimmers in Germany are on the verge of revolution! They accept that masters swimmers are not going to be a threat to any Olympian’s records. Many have now entered masters meets in Italy where they can wear their suits if they want. Also, some meet organisers in Germany are holding similar meets.
Instead of following any directive from our anaemic and tedious Masters Committee, I’d like to see masters swimmers in the UK make a stand against the stupidity surrounding the banning of bodysuits. It will cost me time and money but I’m prepared to organise this.
We need meet organisers in the UK to hold ‘optional suit’ masters meets. Swimmers can choose whether to wear a suit or not. If they are going for a record then the suitless option is a must - but only for a while. I believe that if we boycott masters meets where suits are now allowed, meet organisers, the Masters Committee and the ASA would have to take notice. At the moment they don’t give a toss. At the forefront of the ASA’s mind would be the loss of revenue. Believe me, they see masters swimming as a joke anyway, they would happily let masters swim in bodysuits if it meant they could keep the revenue pouring in.
Getting meet organisers to run ‘bodysuit’ meets would be easy. They would be oversubscribed, every time. Not only from our swimmers but from overseas entries too. I can see one-day meets turning into weekend ones. The organisers could make a lot of money from these well-attended meets. Pulling the plug on masters meets because of low entries would be a thing of the past.
These meets would be the thin end of the wedge in bringing about a change of rules. It‘s the boycotting of ‘non-suit’ meets that would bring a change of rule overnight.
The decathlon would be meaningless because ‘suited’ swims wouldn’t count towards it - but in reality, it is a meaningless competition anyway for all but ten swimmers in the UK who have a chance of winning it.
Don’t underestimate what can be done. Masters swimmers are a powerful group in swimming. The Government is putting very large amounts of money into the greasy hand of the ASA to promote health and fitness for adults. The ASA wouldn’t like the kind of publicity we can give them.
If you feel you can support this initiative I’ll make a start. Masters swimmers in Italy, France and Germany are ready to come on board. Many masters swimmers in America are also willing to make a stand against their governing body. Naturally, support from suit manufacturers is there already. I’ve spoken to four of the biggest.
I still think the suits will be back. The can of worms is open, and while you can clean up the mess, there are still worms to be dealt with :lmao:
I'm looking at times in a new way, again!
I had pre-baby and post-baby times,
now I'll have pre-B70 and post B70 times.
So far I have no life best times with a B70, although I'm hoping to change that!
How we define the fitness swimmer? I believe some competitive masters swimmers view the fitness swimmers as someone who doesn’t, hasn’t or only competed at a limited level. My view of fitness swimmers is somewhat different....These are people who love to swim for physical condition but had lost interest in the competitive side of the sport. With the advent of the tech suit, and older guys and gals swimming close to or exceeding there youthful times, my sense for some of these swimmers was a renewed interest in competition. The competitive fires started to burn once again, not only try but to become excited about it.
Although I use it too, I don't like the term "fitness swimmer." It's just easier to say than "swimmers who like to work out but don't like to compete in meets." Since fitness is my own primary motivation for swimming, it applies to me too; it is just that competition and things like goal times help motivate me to train harder and be more fit. The presence or lack of tech suits just means an adjustment on those goals, it's just not that big a big deal.
Your argument seems to be that there are some people who competed b/c of the tech suits, and they will now let their membership lapse because they won't be motivated to compete without it. Okay, though I should say that at most of the masters practices in my town, USMS membership is required even to practice with the team( for insurance purposes). The vast majority -- at least 80% by my estimate -- of registered USMS swimmers in Richmond do not compete in any meets. Quite a few are triathletes who couldn't give a fig what the USMS tech suit rules are.
But I have often thought the same as Kirk: that the presence of tech suits is a deterrent to the newbie swimmer, certainly as far as participating in meets. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard the question, "do I need one of THOSE SUITS to go to a meet?"
Face it, this sport can be intimidating to those who did not grow up swimming competitively. Seeing a bunch of people in slick, expensive suits does nothing to make it seem more accessible, IMO.
And yes, there are those who simply didn't feel like buying one of those suits but also don't want to compete at a disadvantage. I've heard from those people too. They'll compete again after June 1.
I don't know which group is more numerous, but I don't think one can just assume that the recent jump in USMS membership was due to the suit, and that they'll leave after this year. But we'll see, right?
Karen, I do agree with you about one thing: it was a can of worms.:)
There are a minority (I think 30-40% range, and I seem to recall it is closer to the lower end of that) of masters swimmers who compete, and obviously this issue only concerns that group.
Of that group, there are certainly a fraction who prefer the tech suits, roughly 50% from what I can tell.
But of that group (at most 20% of the USMS membership, so up to 10,000 swimmers), what fraction are actually going to quit USMS over the tech suit issue? I don't know the answer; I would suspect that, while there will be a lot of grumbling, the fraction of people who feel that strongly about the suits are also the ones most committed to competition, and I predict that they would continue to participate in USMS meets. Perhaps if there is some large national rival league that DOES allow tech suits, it might siphon those people away.
USMS could of course go pretty far in satisfying the tech suit people by allowing the suits in SCY competition, as others have suggested. I would recommend that people who feel very strongly about this talk to their LMSC delegates and get them to bring it up at the national convention in the fall. My recollection is, if such a change is endorsed by the Rules Committee, a simple majority vote would pass it. If it is NOT endorsed, then the bar is a little higher (I think two-thirds).
Maybe the tech suit issue will increase OW participation. After all, they are still allowed in OW competitions, including national championships.
This is a fact that I find particularly ironic, given the furor of OW purists ("we swim naked!") over the idea that there be a separate category for wetsuit wearers at national championships.
How we define the fitness swimmer? I believe some competitive masters swimmers view the fitness swimmers as someone who doesn’t, hasn’t or only competed at a limited level. My view of fitness swimmers is somewhat different. I personally go from fitness to competitive and back all the time. I know many masters who competed at a very high level, Division I etc., who workout 3, 4, 5….times a week but haven’t raced in a decade plus. These are people who love to swim for physical condition but had lost interest in the competitive side of the sport. With the advent of the tech suit, and older guys and gals swimming close to or exceeding there youthful times, my sense for some of these swimmers was a renewed interest in competition. The competitive fires started to burn once again, not only try but to become excited about it.
Along with that came the need to become USMS members where it wasn’t always necessary before. One can’t swim a sanctioned meet without the membership. To be honest, in years I don’t compete I sometimes save the $40 USMS fee. Many of the open water events I compete in are not connected to USMS so I don’t need it there.
Just an FYI - I have never worn a non-textile tech suit such as the B70, but I’m open to it as I’d like to see what I could do in one in a pool competition. People who know me are somewhat surprised at that, as in open water side of things, my having fun at wetsuit wearer’s expense is noted if not expected.
Face it, this sport can be intimidating to those who did not grow up swimming competitively. Seeing a bunch of people in slick, expensive suits does nothing to make it seem more accessible, IMO.
I didn't start swimming until last year. Prior to that I'd been a track and cross-country runner in high school, a competitive fencer in university, and a competitive distance runner and tennis player as an adult. Swimming has always been pretty alien and intimidating to me, so you're right about that. However, even so the tech suits piqued my interest. This, I guessed from my outsider's point of view, was a sport that was having a very exciting revolution, and I wanted to be close to that. Instead of the same old swimsuits, caps, and goggles I'd seen for decades, something really interesting and futuristic was happening, and that attracted me.
Besides, they look really cool. XD
But I have often thought the same as Kirk: that the presence of tech suits is a deterrent to the newbie swimmer, certainly as far as participating in meets. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard the question, "do I need one of THOSE SUITS to go to a meet?"
Face it, this sport can be intimidating to those who did not grow up swimming competitively. Seeing a bunch of people in slick, expensive suits does nothing to make it seem more accessible, IMO.
I've read about this line of thinking a lot on this forum - not just from Chris. But as a *newbie* who jumped into biking and running to do triathlons (albeit not well), I sucked it up, bought the gear, completely trained myself (hell, I was in the wrong gears for 15 miles during my first tri competition) and competed. So. . . I just think that riding a bike w/ clips, shoes, aerobars and the like down huge hills at huge speed in bad weather with cars everywhere (heck, and stray animals) is much scarier than putting on a tech suit and heading to a pool. And this is coming from a gal who won't spend one night camping. Just sayin' Perhaps those people are simply not cut out for sport.
Qualifying times at Nationals are intimidating to newbies. The very name "Nationals", for that matter, is intimidating. So let's just call it a Swim Fest and eliminate qualifying times. And while we're at it, maybe some of you could stop swimming so damn fast. It's intimidating.
Thanks for referencing my article, for most swimmers the choice of whether to spend 100, 2, 3, 4 or 500 on a tech suit is about priorities and principles. Though there are some super broke swimmers
ie grad students, people with low paying jobs or people with not much savings where the amount for a tech suit purchase would be a significant part of their budget. BUT everyone can use creative means to find one for much less, many USS swimmers have used tech suits they'll never use again. Some will sell them cheap, others will give or lend them.
Some of the new 2010 FINA Approved suits are pricey, but again it's a matter of priorities and principles.
2010 Approved Womens Tech Suits
2010 Approved Mens Tech Suits
Ande
But most masters swimmers are already paying big bucks for team memberships and/or gym memberships. I would wager most could afford some kind of tech suit. (See Ande's article in Swimmer a couple issues ago). Perhaps some, like Tim, would just prefer to spend their money on other things like travel, furniture, etc. Perfectly understandable. But those same folks shouldn't then disparage a different decision/priority to spend money on gear for competing. Or argue our gear should be banned so they don't have to compete at a disadvantage and can continue spending their discretionary income on non-sports items.
Just to clarify my position, my issue with USMS is that one can attend sanctioned meets and then not have any swims from that meet count for Top 10 due to a variety of reasons including the pool not being measured; officials not knowing the rules; there is a shortage of officials; officials must leave the meet early; results not submitted in a correct form or in a timely manner or at all and the list goes on and on. This has happened to me numerous times at many meets including travel meets where I've forked over some $$$$'s to compete. This issue in and of itself is enough for one to seek an organization in which retroactive DQ's are not the norm - like at USA-S. If USMS decided to keep the suits, I would be tempted to compete even at the cost of my times never counting simply for the sake of variety and to take advantage of something that USAS does not offer currently.
For me - retroactive DQs (with NO notification to the swimmer) AND tech suit ban combined are not a very appealing combination.
AND, when I've attempted to do further investigation, I'm baffled at the mysterious period between preliminary and final Top 10 publications. Sometimes one can get times in and sometimes one cannot (I've had both instances happen to me.)
For example
Meet #1 2009 - All swims from this meet not included in Prelim T10. I let the appropriate people know immediately. Results included in Final T10.
Meet #2 2009 - All swims from this meet not included in Prelim T10. Let appropriate people know also within that same time frame. Was told it was too late to do anything.
I'm sure there must be a detailed process that published somewhere regarding how this all works from an administrative standpoint. It's not included in our regular rule book or is it? Thanks for any feedback on this.
Maybe what you want is here, under "Guide to Operations."
www.usms.org/.../
I am sorry that this happened to you and am not sure why you've had bad luck. I know that NC has had some issues with TT recorder (3 within one year, I think) but hopefully it is straightened out now. I encourage you to try again.
I've been swimming in masters for over 20 years and it hasn't been an issue for me. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, it just means that if it did, I didn't notice it. Then again, I don't believe I seriously paid attention to TT until 3 years ago, when I became a TT recorder.
The time between preliminary and final TT is to give people time to find errors. It happens all the time. I don't know the answer to your question about why an overlooked meet is accepted one time but not another, but I am trying to find out the policy about that. Deadlines are strictly enforced for TT submissions because Mary Beth's job is hard enough as it is without having to deal with late submissions.
I will say, though, that USA-S has its own share of inanities that I've experienced as both swimmer and parent. Including a situation where the swims from an entire LSC were "wiped out" retroactively, even though they were legit swims. Or delaying a meet for 5 minutes in order to explain to a crying child why she needed to be DQ'ed because she didn't step up to the blocks quite fast enough (ie, the meet was delayed while she was DQ'ed for delay of meet. I don't ever see that happening in USMS meets.)
I have a dozen such stories and although I can *** and moan about specific issues like anyone else, I'm grateful to the organization and the many volunteers that help run it. They do a fine job; so does USMS.
By the way, if you swim in USA-S meets you can still get those times submitted for USMS TT, as long as the pool length has been measured at some point, as you note. (If there is a bulkhead, then it needs to be re-measured at the meet.) And, of course, as long as you are a USMS member. It is up to you to make sure your TT recorder is aware of the meet, though.
Getting USMS times submitted to SWIMS is easily as much of a hassle as that.
