Flip turns are still killing me

There are two possibilities that have been covered here: (1) health - are you overweight, smoke or have heart issues? A doctor can help if any of these are a factor. (2) Breathing - the need to exhale cannot be stressed too much. And the term that is well used for exhaling while swimming is to "explode" your breath while your face is still in the water. It is a good drill, creating a habit of exhaling BEFORE turning your head to breathe. Many swimmers are so intent on tuning their stroke or making adjustments while swimming that they forget to breathe. Sounds odd, but once you are focused on the phenomenon, you will understand. Bearing down to do one last hard swim, or finish a fast interval will sometimes delay or even suspend the timing of your breathing.

I hate to sound alarmist, but how's your ticker? One of my first clues that I had a heart problem (atrial fib) was when I experienced continual "out of breath" moments during swim workouts. That was over 13 years ago, I was 49 at the time. A bit of a life changing experience but certainly manageable. Now I am freaked out. I thought I had a swimming problem, but it could just be a symptom for what is really killing me!?? Did those moments randomly occur? I can pretty much predict exactly when I will be struggling.

Health issues aside, are you exhaling air between breaths or when you turn your head to breathe? I've realized from reading this forum and a few books that I actually know absolutely nothing about the fundamental techniques of swimming. Everything I do is from what I learned as a kid and from what little I can remember I think I could pretty much breath in any pattern I wanted. The strokes came back like riding a bike. The kicking and conditioning, not so much. But maybe I got by in age group with flaws, or else I picked up new bad habits without realizing it. Sounds like I need to go back to the very beginning and learn how to blow bubbles. It does seem though that during the flip turn is the one place where I would be forced to fully exhale due to the duration under water?

Bingo. I had the same issue when I started back swimming 18 months ago. I do some, not a TON, hypoxic stuff. Things like 4-3-2-1-0 (or just down to 1) breathes for 50's on an moderate interval. No breather 25's....moderate, fast, underwater, kick underwater with fins, etc. Another good one is Tennessee Tumblers.....go underwater at the flags, flip turn underwater, come back up at flags. Do 200-500's like that at a moderate or faster pace. I also do some pulling where I breathe every 3,5,7, or 9 for certain distances. All this should help. I have been doing some 25 dolphin kicks underwater. And in 25s and 50s I seem to be fine with limited breaths. But I am giving myself a lot of rest between these sprints. Hopefully this stuff is helping me a little. Anything longer and I would have trouble but maybe starting with just a 200 breathing every 3rd stroke. Or maybe just even trying not to breath out of the turn - although that would be frustrating because I could probably make 5 100s in this manner instead of 20. As for the other questions on my health. Yeah, if you saw me you might notice I have a little bit of a weight problem. The cumulative effect of flipturns is probably directly related to the cumulative effect that years of partying has done to my body. But I feel like I am in decent shape. I'm trying to turn my life around but still drink too much beer and don't have a great diet. I did a couple triathlons (not very well) that led me to masters as I realized swimming was my true love. Like one poster eloquently put "its like recapturing a part of myself that I had forgot about". I'm completely at home in the water (outside of those couple of seconds coming off each wall).

Do you go to the gym to increase cardio ? This will help a lot. Long workouts out of the pool will aid - running , biking .

It does seem though that during the flip turn is the one place where I would be forced to fully exhale due to the duration under water? My personal experience with running out of air on flip turns was that I was blowing out too much during the flip and while pushing off, when I minimized the exhale during the turn to just enough to keep water out of my nose it greatly reduced the need for a quick breath. And if you've got a good quick flip it doesn't take much of an exhale. The duration under water really shouldn't be a big factor if you don't exhale until just before you breath. Is it possible that you are breathing out continuously instead of in a burst? That will really reduce the time you can go without breathing.

Now I am freaked out. I thought I had a swimming problem, but it could just be a symptom for what is really killing me!?? Did those moments randomly occur? I can pretty much predict exactly when I will be struggling. When I was a freshman in college (1964) I was tested for max O2 uptake (the definitive test for cardiovascular fitness) and posted the highest score ever achieved. Peter Snell had just broken the WR for the mile and it was his Max O2 uptake record that I beat. Mine was a short lived record because they soon stated testing world class cross country skiers, who destroyed my record. But that didn't keep from going through life figuring I was some kind of Cardio-God. The fact that I would develop some wiring malfunction in my heart was not on my radar. I did not believe the doctors when they came up with their diagnosis. But life can be tricky business. Reality is what it is. I hope that you are just not breathing correctly when you swim. But I also hope that you will get a thorough physical.

My personal experience with running out of air on flip turns was that I was blowing out too much during the flip and while pushing off, when I minimized the exhale during the turn to just enough to keep water out of my nose it greatly reduced the need for a quick breath. And if you've got a good quick flip it doesn't take much of an exhale. The duration under water really shouldn't be a big factor if you don't exhale until just before you breath. Is it possible that you are breathing out continuously instead of in a burst? That will really reduce the time you can go without breathing. I think continuously blowing out air during the tumble and push off was in fact just what I was doing. I can't even say for sure because after reading this it seemed real easy to change it - but that is what felt natural. I will see if your new technique works for me after more study.

Herb, I can easily swim a 2:12 200 fs while doing grap turns (I do this because I think I need the air). For the last two weeks I have moved my 200's to 2:40's while concentrating on arm movement, exhaling and flip turns. I am two weeks into it and find that the turns are becoming easier (somewhat) and my breathing, in particular the exhaling is starting to work. I think going slower and "retaining" your body may be of some benefit--hope this helps.

how do you know when you have fully exhaled (assuming that is the goal)? When there is literally no more air for you to exhale. Try to blow more air out and you can't because there is none. It's not a good state to be in - if you are underwater then you will have to fight the reflex to inhale. I get in this state sometimes when I take too many SDK's, go too deep on a pushoff after a back-to-*** flip turn, cough in the middle of a flip turn, that sort of thing. It's definitely not the goal. It hurts.