Of suits and sexism

Mr. Thornton, just out of curiosity, is it your habit to insult everyone and anyone you can, even total strangers? Mr. Thornton is a pro at having intelligent fun. He never means to insult anybody! I will say, however, that he is a little bit hard on the South and the I.Q. level of its population. I believe he must be forgetting that Southerners wrote the Constitution (quite an amazing document that still survives over 200 years later) and dominated all three branches of our government for the first fifty years of our fine country. While Southerners were busy fighting the Brits in the War of 1812, a bunch of whiney Yankees were talking about seceding from the Union because they weren't getting their way. Only when the U.S. was clearly victorious vis a vis Southerner Andrew Jackson, did the whiney Yankees shut their mouths. When the South got fed up with the North's self-righteous politics in 1860, it took action. Somehow, it took 4 years for the North with 2.5 times the population of the South to overcome brilliant Southern generals. Quite amazing that it took 4 years to overcome the South when the South had not a single cannon factory when the war began. The horrible war lasted so long due to the intelligence of the Southerners involved in battle (and some might say the lack of intelligence on the part of Northern generals). These intelligent men were wrong to be attempting to perpetuate a life, economy, and government based upon slavery. There is absolutely nothing that can justify slavery. These men were wrong, but they were not dumb. The descendants of those that braved Indian attacks, wrote the Constitution, fought off the Brits in New Orleans, and ran the government in its infancy probably don't look too kindly upon being stereotyped as ignorant Crackers. I suspect, however, that they will forgive Jim for his antics and know that this is all in fun. Back to the topic of the thread, since men only compete against men and not against women, I do not see how men are disadvantaged.

Back to the topic of the thread, since men only compete against men and not against women, I do not see how men are disadvantaged. Because secretly my dear, in masters swimming many men compare their times to women's times. And they race with them in mixed heats of men & women. I agree with the same suit for men and women - if they choose to wear it.

Because secretly my dear, in masters swimming many men compare their times to women's times. And they race with them in mixed heats of men & women. I agree with the same suit for men and women - if they choose to wear it. I would agree with you, but I have a more narrow definition of "compete." I mean ranked or scored. Personally, I can't compare my times to a guy or feel like I'm competing against him. Now, if my heart and lungs were the same size as a guy of my weight and height, and if I had the same amount of circulating testosterone, that might be a different story.

I would agree with you, but I have a more narrow definition of "compete." I mean ranked or scored. Personally, I can't compare my times to a guy or feel like I'm competing against him. Now, if my heart and lungs were the same size as a guy of my weight and height, and if I had the same amount of circulating testosterone, that might be a different story. Ha Ha! What I said was, "many men compare their times to women's times" Everything should be equal like the training we all do - workout is the same for both male & female. I learned long ago that often guys swim slower than girls in workouts relative to their best times. Not sayin all of them... But in masters and age-groupers it is common. I swim with guys all the time - racing in workout sets along side them. But they're always faster at meets. I never wonder why I'm swimming a 58 and they're low 50s but can't hang with me on a set of 200s... it is the way of swim training. They talk about stuff like this at age-group coaches clinics all the time. Watched a group of teenagers today swim a set of 10 X 500. Before #10 and the coach calls out the best time of the set so far - a boy @ 5:18. He had been swimming surrounded by 3 girls all near in time. Final 500, the set record gets broken by a girl, 5:17 and the previous record holder boy gets 4th going 5:22.

Just to make things clear, I LOVE the south. Your hicks, billies, crackers, and assorted yahoos are just precious to me, and I, for one, would like to put the whole lot of you in some kind of museum or zoo-like compound where we can ensure you'll stay safe, breed, and get the best veterinary care we northern sophisticates can afford. Please, don't every misunderestimate the extent of my affection for every last one of you! Why you're almost like people in my book! Now, back to the thread. Perhaps a compromise could be made. I think Allen was suggesting as much, but was a little reticent to spell things out. If women are required to wear modesty skirts again, I think this would equal the playing field. As for our southern friends, I say they should be allowed to wear o'possum hides in any cut they want. Daisy Mae in a o'possum bikini? Well, who wouldn't want to watch that get soaking wet! Note to self: round up a passle of Daisy Maes and o'possums for the Museum of the South grand opening exhibit.

Ha Ha! What I said was, "many men compare their times to women's times" Everything should be equal like the training we all do - workout is the same for both male & female. I learned long ago that often guys swim slower than girls in workouts relative to their best times. Not sayin all of them... But in masters and age-groupers it is common. I swim with guys all the time - racing in workout sets along side them. But they're always faster at meets. I never wonder why I'm swimming a 58 and they're low 50s but can't hang with me on a set of 200s... it is the way of swim training. They talk about stuff like this at age-group coaches clinics all the time. Watched a group of teenagers today swim a set of 10 X 500. Before #10 and the coach calls out the best time of the set so far - a boy @ 5:18. He has been swimming surrounded by 3 girls all near in time. Final 500, the set record gets broken by a girl, 5:17 and the previous record holder boy gets 4th going 5:22. Oh, I know exactly what you said, but had I said it the other way around, I may have offended the guys. Agreed that guys go much slower in practice relative to meet times than we do. This is why I don't like to compare my times to theirs in practice. Growing up, I used to train during the summer with a guy I could usually beat in practice. He would usually beat me in a meet by 3 or 4 seconds on a 50. Having others to train with, whatever their gender, beats swimming on my own. When it comes right down to it though, I'd rather train with women as I think they go harder in practice than men and I can get a better idea of where I am. There is an argument to be made that the suit rules for men and women should be the same. Afterall, we don't have different rules for the strokes based on gender. It would kind of be nice, however, if women built like myself were allowed to do a dolphin kick on breaststroke instead of that horrible contorted kick that bothers my hips!

Just to make things clear, I LOVE the south. Your hicks, billies, crackers, and assorted yahoos are just precious to me, and I, for one, would like to put the whole lot of you in some kind of museum or zoo-like compound where we can ensure you'll stay safe, breed, and get the best veterinary care we northern sophisticates can afford. Please, don't every misunderestimate the extent of my affection for every last one of you! Why you're almost like people in my book! Now, back to the thread. Perhaps a compromise could be made. I think Allen was suggesting as much, but was a little reticent to spell things out. If women are required to wear modesty skirts again, I think this would equal the playing field. As for our southern friends, I say they should be allowed to wear o'possum hides in any cut they want. Daisy Mae in a o'possum bikini? Well, who wouldn't want to watch that get soaking wet! Note to self: round up a passle of Daisy Maes and o'possums for the Museum of the South grand opening exhibit. Be sure you pak the cah out bak! For the Museum of the North grand opening exhibit, let's be sure to round up a bunch of Archie Bunkers wearing leather warm-up suits who push everybody out of the way to get in line for the bagels. Sharpsburger - Nothing wrong with being a cracker, only an ignorant one. ;) You must be from Georgia. I'm probably related to you.

Everything should be equal like the training we all do - workout is the same for both male & female. Things aren't close to being equal, IMO. Women are the ones who get pregnant and give birth and are generally responsible for more than their share of child-rearing even in this "enlightened" day and age. Just check out the masters age demographics for women vs men; female participation takes a big hit in the 30s that it never fully recovers from, relative to men. And women were disadvantaged wrt the suits for decades when "more material" meant slower racing. I think there is a certain justice in women getting to race in better suits than men. I also believe that many of the women now in masters did not have the same athletic opportunities as men did when they were teens, but I definitely do NOT want to cross a Title IX discussion with a tech suit discussion...I think my computer might explode. Or let's just do it and see what happens; heck, we can throw in a "Dara must be doping" comment in there too, just for fun.:bolt:

Things aren't close to being equal, IMO. Women are the ones who get pregnant and give birth and are generally responsible for more than their share of child-rearing even in this "enlightened" day and age. Just check out the masters age demographics for women vs men; female participation takes a big hit in the 30s that it never fully recovers from, relative to men. And women were disadvantaged wrt the suits for decades when "more material" meant slower racing. I think there is a certain justice in women getting to race in better suits than men. I also believe that many of the women now in masters did not have the same athletic opportunities as men did when they were teens, but I definitely do NOT want to cross a Title IX discussion with a tech suit discussion...I think my computer might explode. Or let's just do it and see what happens; heck, we can throw in a "Dara must be doping" comment in there too, just for fun.:bolt: I totally agree with this! Jim - Perhaps you should view the suit situation as a form of affirmative action.

Mr. Thornton is a pro at having intelligent fun. He never means to insult anybody! I will say, however, that he is a little bit hard on the South and the I.Q. level of its population. I believe he must be forgetting that Southerners wrote the Constitution (quite an amazing document that still survives over 200 years later) and dominated all three branches of our government for the first fifty years of our fine country. While Southerners were busy fighting the Brits in the War of 1812, a bunch of whiney Yankees were talking about seceding from the Union because they weren't getting their way. Only when the U.S. was clearly victorious vis a vis Southerner Andrew Jackson, did the whiney Yankees shut their mouths. When the South got fed up with the North's self-righteous politics in 1860, it took action. Somehow, it took 4 years for the North with 2.5 times the population of the South to overcome brilliant Southern generals. Quite amazing that it took 4 years to overcome the South when the South had not a single cannon factory when the war began. The horrible war lasted so long due to the intelligence of the Southerners involved in battle (and some might say the lack of intelligence on the part of Northern generals). These intelligent men were wrong to be attempting to perpetuate a life, economy, and government based upon slavery. There is absolutely nothing that can justify slavery. These men were wrong, but they were not dumb. The descendants of those that braved Indian attacks, wrote the Constitution, fought off the Brits in New Orleans, and ran the government in its infancy probably don't look too kindly upon being stereotyped as ignorant Crackers. I suspect, however, that they will forgive Jim for his antics and know that this is all in fun. Back to the topic of the thread, since men only compete against men and not against women, I do not see how men are disadvantaged. Jim only insults Southerner's because he doesn't understand our laid back ways. Granted, if Jimbo did move down here, he would be welcomed with homemade ice tea and apple pie. After Jim had stayed down here for a few months, longing for his frozen lands of PA, we would be happy to wish him a fond farewell with a big county wide party. Once Jimb was gone, he would be forever known as a "fullback" For ya'll that don't know that affecionate term, it simple is a way of addressing a damn yankee that has moved back to the north. We will greatly help any of the half-backs pack up there mobile homes to become fullbacks.