I was just wondering, how many of you typically enter the maximum number of events that you can? I always do. One of our new coaches wants us to try and focus more on our "stronger events" and skip the other events. I usually like to see how well I might do in a event I haven't done in awhile.
If you don't enter the maximum number of events for the meet, how can you win the age-group high point award?
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I care more about doing the best that I can in my events than a high point award.
That said, I think pwbrundage and Muppet's posts were meant to be more of a motivational nature than scientific. And they like pain.
Caveat emptor: I earned the nickname Bondage from my swimming teammates for a reason. Fatigue and pain can be your friends!
If you don't enter the maximum number of events for the meet, how can you win the age-group high point award?
Absolutely (see forums.usms.org/blog.php where I shamelessly swam an event all for a nifty swim backpack that I still haven't used!).
...says the man who apparently has never tried to race a 100 back 30 min. after a 200 fly. I will not try that again.
I'd do a 100 back 10 minutes after a 200 fly if needed. Seriously, the 200 fly is over-rated as a killer race, especially short course where languid turns and long SDKs off each wall can make this race quite fun.
I will have to disagree on the rest issue. It seems obvious to me that sprinters and mid-distance/ distance types will differ in the amount of time needed to recover from events due to the different amounts of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscle fibers for each, as well as the amount of training done.
different amounts of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscle fibers NO
the amount of training done YES! (is this not the key to all this 'not enough rest' whining?)
I care more about doing the best that I can in my events than a high point award.
There are some really nice towels out there that might change your mind.:)
What I would say, in the spirit of Muppet and Patrick's comments, is that you don't really know how much rest you need until you push the envelope a little. "Feeling" -- including imagining that you still feel a race 30 minutes after you finish it -- is often a very poor guide to how fast you will swim. There have been races in the past where I have surprised myself, thinking that I didn't have adequate recovery time. In some cases I actually think I did better in the second race than I would have done without the first race (give that lactate buffering system a swift kick to get it going! Though proper warmup should take care of that).
In all seriousness, Chris hit on a point I was trying to make. I surprised myself earlier this fall by doing 6 races in a space of about 2+ hours and going darn close to a best time on the last event (forums.usms.org/blog.php. This was in addition to a morning open water mile.
The message I probably didn't convey clearly enough is this: we are all often capable of more than we think, so enter a lot of events. The worst thing that happens is you get tired ... doesn't that then justify another of your favorite beverage of choice at the post-meet-party?
Back to why I posted... It's all in your mind! If you want to be successful at something, you can NOT let something small like get in your way. Walk into a meet - and up to the blocks - with confidence. Sign up for your meet, set a realistic goal and tell yourself, your coach and anyone who will listen "I am going to go ___ time." Then get out there and git 'r done!
:applaud::applaud::applaud:
I also tend to enter the maximum number of events, as it is best to have options at the meet. And I swim events even if I haven't gotten enough rest fairly often, except for the big meets.
I'm surprised that Patrick and Chris have dismissed what I thought was well-known which is that people differ with regards to the proportional amount of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscle fibers.
As a general rule, swimmers with a lot of fast-twitch fibers tend to excel in the sprints, while those with a predominance of slow-twitch the distance events. You can train your fast twitch muscles to process lactate better, but they will never perform anywhere close to that of a slow twitch fiber. So similar caliber swimmers with 80% fast twitch fibers will not be able to get rid of lactic acid well enough for a 400/500 to compete well against someone with 80% composition of slow twitch fibers.
After a 400/500 race, that sprinter will have a lot of lactic acid, and it'll take that sprinter longer to recover than the distance swimmer with 80% slow twitch fibers.
I'm not surprised that Patrick can do a 200 fly and then 100 back with 10 min. rest- he's used and developed his slow twitch fibers for years. It's pure physiology, plain and simple. Not . . . "not enough rest whinning" :)
If you really think you don't need any rest why not set PBs in the 50,100,and 200 in the same race.
With my breastroke, it really wouldn't be that unrealistic for me to do just that...
And I just mailed my entry to the St. Nick's meet in atlanta. Max events-5. How many did I enter without realizing....5! Be a good mental test, plus QUALITY racing
different amounts of slow-twitch and fast-twitch muscle fibers NO
the amount of training done YES! (is this not the key to all this 'not enough rest' whining?)
NO! :) It will not entirely solve this problem or eliminate our whining. Plus, lactate tolerance training is generally counter-productive for me or other sprinters. The secret to sprint speed in the pool IMHO is race pace training with adequate rest between efforts.
And I haven't wasted even a moment's reflection on high point awards.
That said, I do swim a zillion events at Zones meet when I do relays. And I have been known to swim 4 events a day on occasion. I might do that at NE Champs. Or, if I don't feel the urge or am tired, I might not. :)
If you don't need rest or want to experiment or have fun at an in season meet, knock yourself out and swim the max events. But don't expect others to want to do the same or necessarily see this as some desirable goal. :-P It's not all about the meterage ...
I'm just happy I don't have to put up with you and your tech suit zippin' ways next month. This just means you'll have to come for the Sunbelt meet at the end of January.
As to making it SCM next year, that would require a few million dollars to achieve.
Schmaltz - find me at the Hoot, would like to meet you.
I'll look you up. I will be the one wondering where my legs went after the 200 back:)
It depends on the meet. If it's a meet where I expect a large turn-out, I'll enter more events then a meet where I believe there will be a low turn-out
AMEN!! I'd also argue that most of this rest between events crap is all in your mind. I will not disagree that most of us have X many meets of experience of not doing well with limited rest, and yes, swimming 4-5 events in a day/2 days in a row is taxing. But it works both ways. If any of you read Fort's posts and blog, we all know she in particular has plenty of examples of dissatisfying swims coming in 1 or 2 event per-day meets.
Back to why I posted... It's all in your mind! If you want to be successful at something, you can NOT let something small like get in your way. Walk into a meet - and up to the blocks - with confidence. Sign up for your meet, set a realistic goal and tell yourself, your coach and anyone who will listen "I am going to go ___ time." Then get out there and git 'r done!
I think there is a lot to this. Everyone knows about sprinter divas; they are a high-maintenance group.
I am mostly joking. Sort of. I chuckled at Forts comment that sprinters need longer to recover from their super-tough 50s than mid-D and distance types need from their easeir events, such as the 2-fly or the 400 IM. I am still not quite sure if she was kidding.
I would say that the rest thing is MOSTLY in your mind. Physically, it does take some time to recover from hard swims but it isn't as long as many people seem to think. I've had too many good swims on "short" rest to think otherwise.
But don't sell "only in your mind" short. At least for me, it takes a lot of mental/emotional effort to get physically and mentally prepared for an individual race at a taper meet. (Less so at an in-season meet only because I generally don't care as much about the outcome.) Doing so repeatedly is tiring. This is one of the reasons the "relay day" at nationals bothered me; by the 4th day I was plain sick of racing and I think it affected my last day.
(Yet another reason I was so impressed by Phelps' performance at the 2008 Olympics. Besides the physical toll, it takes an incredible amount of mental discipline to stay "up" for race after race.)
Depending on event order, I will sometimes shy away from certain events that, based on past experience, can "stick with you" an inordinately long time afterward if you take them out too aggresively. 200 fly, 400 IM, 500 free are among these types of races and I am cautious about entering them if they are too early in the meet.
