My great friend, the charming ignoramus Leslie "the Fortess" Livingston, and I recently had the opportunity to bandy about a debate topic in the November issue of Swimmer magazine.
Leslie has asked me to create a poll to see which of us had the more persuasive arguments vis a vis the usefulness of weight lifting to behoove swimming performance.
I tried to talk Leslie out of such a poll, because I wasn't sure her delicate albeit manly temperament could take the likely beat down she would get, vote wise.
After all, her teenage daughter had already proclaimed, in uncertain terms, that she was best off pleading Nolo contendere here (see en.wikipedia.org/.../Nolo_contendere if your legal skills are as atrophied as Leslie's). In her daughter's own words, "He totally owned you, Mom! Like totally! It was so awesome! He's so totally funny, and you are so totally uptight, Mom! I mean, it was like so totally embarrassing how much he owned you! Please tell me I'm adopted! Please tell me Jim Thornton is my real mother!"
Unfortunately, this kind of advanced rhetorical argument on my part fell on deaf ears, just as my advanced rhetorical argument--in which actual studies were cited!--also fell on deaf ears. Evidently, the dear girl has overdone the neck thickening machine, and in the process, mastoid muscle processes seem to have overgrown her ear canals!
I know that not everyone has received their copy of Swimmer yet. Rumor has it that those of us who live in the higher class zip codes get the extra virgin pressed copies, with the rest of you having to wait to the ink starts getting stale.
You will get your copies one day, I assure you! Just as you will get your H1N1 swine flu vaccines dosages when me and my friends at Goldman have had our third inoculations!
But I am getting a bit off the track here.
If you've read our Inane Point (Leslie) - Brilliant Counterpoint (Jim) *** for tat debate, Leslie asks that you vote in this poll for the person you think was RHETORICALLY superior.
Note: this does not mean which of us was right.
Hell, I have already conceded Leslie was right, and have begun weight lifting myself thrice weekly!
I am one bulked up monstrosity of a girly man at this point, and I don't plan to stop till you can bounce quarters off my moobs.
So. Forget all aspects of actual rational correctness here, and certainly forget all aspects of who is more popular.
And vote with your pitiless inner rhetoritician calling the shots.
Leslie, I warned you: Nolo contendere was the smart plea. But no, you just wouldn't hear of it!
Former Member
To everyone saying Phelps didn't use weights before Athens, he did use some weights at least as of 2001 which you can see in his butterfly with Micheal Phelps video. It shows him doing situps holding a plate on his chest and doing vertical kick with a weighted belt. It is not technically weights, but it also shows him doing chinups, dips, pushups and various exercises with a medicine ball.
I got my magazine last week. I got quite the chuckle out of their "debate". To me it seemed more entertaining than anything.
I do not have a single fast twitch fiber in my entire body. That being said, I have found that weights, usually 3 x 15 reps at about 80% of max, and bands, and running, produce the fastest swimming for me. Mind you I don't have time to do any of this anymore, including swimming, but that has been my experience : )
:2cents:
Jim- I have a special quarter that I'd like to bounce off of your "moobs", when we finally meet :cheerleader:
Jim- I have a special quarter that I'd like to bounce off of your "moobs", when we finally meet :cheerleader:
Karen, I look forward to it! From what I am managed to glean from various posts you have made it the past, the possibility of some sort of ***-for-tat reciprocity is the most exciting prospect I have contemplated in a very long time.
In case you STILL have not received your SWIMMER Magazine...
Just enlarge this to read the debate!
I don't need more reminders that I might need reading glasses soon! I'll wait for the magazine, but thanks...!
I don't need more reminders that I might need reading glasses soon! I'll wait for the magazine, but thanks...!
I had to trade my Wal Marts in for an actual prescription, you are well past due.
Sorry Jim, but I am going with Leslie on this one. I lifted last year (first time in 30 years) and got faster in all swims. And yes, I was wearing the Lazer...but my 50 fly dropped from 28.1 at Stanford FINA Worlds 2007 to 26.8 this year....that is not all suit.
Besides that, I am much handier around the house being able to open jars of pickles and lift and move furniture previously unimaginable.
What I seriously like about the type of strength training I did (very little heavy lifting) is that my core is much stronger. That means better starts, turns and getting up in the morning doesn't hurt my back so much (except for the morning after strength workout).
Here's to Leslie!
Gary Sr.
Thanks Gary! My 50 fly went from 31.1 to 29.7 this year as well.
I will remind Jim of your view about every 10 seconds or so when we practice together next Wednesday. I may have to up it to every 5 seconds when I hold his hand in the weight room and show him a real core routine. :D
Maybe that will stave off future rants like this one:
"Let's put Galileo in prison for saying the earth revolves around the sun! Let's jail that Tennessee science teacher for claiming creationism is false! Let's stone Jim because he lifts weights via Nautilus machines instead of the latest P9OX system conducted under challenging conditions of hot yoga while imbibing Soylent Green Smoothies and visualizing swimming immune warriors revitalizing his joints! Let's stick a pig's head on a stick and worship the fly swarm that gathers! Let's cut out the tongues of everyone who bears false witness against us and wag them viciously in the air! Let's elevate smugness to its rightful place in the pantheon of virtues! Let's cherry pick the scientific literature to support our anecdotal evidence, and if the scientific literature fails us, let's say that this is because swimming does not attract good researchers the way high caliber sports like badminton and curling do! Let's kick sand in the face of weaklings everywhere! That will teach them! Oh, yes! Yes! Yes! That will teach them very well indeed."
However, I feel that Jim's fallback position will be that my time improvements are due to kicking, not weights. Here it comes ...
