Training for the 1500/1650: Suggestions?

come swim with Longhorn Masters as much as you can join us for fast friday, saturday and sunday practices i stand by the advice in Last 150 of my 500 falls off first post Tip 265 Train harder, smarter, faster, further, more often, with a coach, with a team, in a convenient facility & at a convenient Time So I have decided to focus on the 1500/1650, partly because I seem to have misplaced the three fast twitch fibers I once owned, and partly because guys named Smith are now swimming the 500 and even the 1000. Geek suggested that I build my endurance with dryland work, but unlike him I have a job and limited time to train, and I don't really want to give up pool time. Any suggestions?

I did a set last year that I thought really helped with distance pacing. The first week I did both 4x50 on :45 trying to hold my 500 pace and 4x100 on 1:30 trying to hold my 1650 pace. Then the following week I did 6x50 on :45, and the week after that 6x100 on 1:30. I kept adding two repeats until I got up to 20x50 and 20x100. Then I skipped a week, then the final week (probably two weeks out from Nationals) did both 10x50 and 10x100. So the only weeks you do both the 50s and the 100s are the first and last weeks. All the other weeks you just do one or the other. The sendoffs worked out for me to give very close to a 2:1 swim to rest ratio. That first week you'll think to yourself "there's no way I'm ever going to make 20 of these," but by the time you get there you'll realize you can. That was the beauty of this progression to me: it helped both physically and mentally. Other than that I recommend trying to do a set of 3,000 yards or more without much rest at least once per week. Personally I'm not a fan of long swims in workout. I think pace stuff is more rewarding and far less boring. I also do very little dryland. Not to say dryland can't help, but I don't think it's essential.

Given the short rest interval, I find it hard to get closer to my goal pace. Am I not pushing hard enough? No, I agree with you. If I started out a set like this on my goal pace I'd make the first one and then fall off. I think sets like this with maybe ten seconds rest are great for building your endurance, but I don't think you can realistically do them at your mile pace. At least that's my experience. And maybe if you can make your goal pace, your goal pace isn't fast enough!

My best season for distance swimming was when we did a ton of 500s and 200s in practice. I personally prefer sets of 100s, but if I really want to get into good distance shape, I find the minimum repeat unit needs to be 200s. Don't get me wrong: 100s are good, too. But 200s are long enough so that you really are simulating distance mentality here. For me, knowing I only have to swim 4 lengths of the pool and get at least a tiny rest (albeit sometimes just a breath on the wall and a break from a flip turn), well, it's just not the same distance mentality somehow. Our coach, the locally legendary Bill White, was superb at subtly increasing the pressure over the course of the season. I think we started off doing sets of 4 x 200s on 2:45. Then he threw a few in at 2:40 and 2:35. Like Knelson said about his own approach, what would have seemed inconceivable at the beginning of the season slowly became just barely doable several months into it. The crowning touch was when we swam 10 x 200 on 2:30, rested two minutes, then swam another 10 x 200 on 2:30. For me, that workout was then, and remains today, the hardest practice of my life. And the best confidence booster ever. When we went to a meet, I knew I could swim with quite a bit of endurance.

Since this thread has the attention of the distance gurus, want to ask a few questions about pace based on the last time I swam the 500 (Actually, the next to last time as the last time was just a warm-up.). I consider myself a sprinter, but wouldn't mind improving on this event. Based on my last 50, could I have held a faster pace? Any ideas on how I can improve my pace and suggested intervals? _____________________36 CVYS-SE 5:47.94 31.64 34.92 35.14 35.87 35.31 35.40 35.53 35.86 35.36 32.91

That looks like a well split race to me. Your first 250 was 2:52.88 and your second was 2:55.06. I don't think your final 50 suggests you could have held a faster pace overall, but maybe you could have picked it up earlier. I like to consciously pick up my pace when I see 13 on the counter. Unless I'm really dead my final 50 is always the second fastest 50 (you do get to finish to your hand rather than your feet, after all), but I like the second to last to be faster than the 50s from the middle of the race, too. Based on this maybe you should try pace sets where you try to hold either 50s at :34 or 100s at 1:08. As I've said in other posts, I can't hold a goal pace like this with short rest. Figure you need 15 seconds rest for 50s and 30 for 100s. If you try this and it's easy for you, then maybe you should try pushing it a little harder next time you swim a 500.

That looks like a well split race to me. Your first 250 was 2:52.88 and your second was 2:55.06. I don't think your final 50 suggests you could have held a faster pace overall, but maybe you could have picked it up earlier. I like to consciously pick up my pace when I see 13 on the counter. Unless I'm really dead my final 50 is always the second fastest 50 (you do get to finish to your hand rather than your feet, after all), but I like the second to last to be faster than the 50s from the middle of the race, too. Based on this maybe you should try pace sets where you try to hold either 50s at :34 or 100s at 1:08. As I've said in other posts, I can't hold a goal pace like this with short rest. Figure you need 15 seconds rest for 50s and 30 for 100s. If you try this and it's easy for you, then maybe you should try pushing it a little harder next time you swim a 500. Thanks, Kirk! Sounds like I should set my interval around 1:40 to hold the 1:08 pace. For the 500, would sets of 10 be sufficient, or is it wise to do sets of 20? Is there any benefit in doing a set of 10 x 100 on 1:20? On a REALLY good day, I might be able to make this set. I'm sure after three, I would be getting just a few seconds (2 or 3) of rest. In training for the 500, is there any benefit in doing a set of 10 with this little rest? P.S. Sorry to gull for getting a little off the subject.

One of my favorite set's (not really as it hurts) is 11x150's (SCY) or 10x150 (SCM) on a tight interval :10 to :15 seconds rest. Focusing hard on that pace clock and trying sustain the same pace at the end of set as at the beginning. Ken (or others), How close are you to your goal 1650 pace when you do a set like this? I'd be about 4-5 seconds per 100 slower than my goal 1650 pace. Note that this would be a "jump in and do it set" and not one where I'd mentally or physically prepare or wear a racing suit. Given the short rest interval, I find it hard to get closer to my goal pace. Am I not pushing hard enough?

Like you, I started training for distance last year after years of avoiding it. It turned out I had a very successful year in the 1000, 1650, 800 and 1500. I'm 68 and do not swim as many yards as you might, but I found my training was right on. I did lots of sets of 1500-1800. I was amazed that my race pace duplicated my training pace. My favorite sets: (1) 400, 2 x 200, 4 x 100, 8 x 50 (2) 5 x 100, 4 x 100, 3 x 100, 2 x 100, 1 x 100. Sometimes I descended within each set. Sometimes I descended the interval. (3) 100, 200, 300, 400, 300, 200, 100. Sometime this was all swim, sometimes I mixed in some pull. I always concentrated on holding the pace. As I got closer to the meet, I was amazed at how my pace improved. I swam a 500 in Feb at 7:50+. When I swam 1000 at zones, my splits were 7:30 and 7:33! (4) A week before one of my mile swims, I did 18 x 100 on 2:00. It was a lot of rest, but I was not worried about cardio; I was worried about muscle fatigue. It was amazinig. I swam all 18 at 1:35. I thought I was exhausted, but I was able to swim the same pace for each 100. It was a neat feeling that I had gone into automatic pilot. It gave me a lot of confidence for the meet.

Thanks for the great responses. A couple of questions: How much aerobic (En1) swimming should I be doing outside of the warm up and warm down? And how long should the anaerobic threshold (En2) sets be?