I would like to nominate Andy Seibt as the greatest masters swimmer of all time. For those of you who are unaware, Andy swam the Big Shoulders open water race this weekend (it is also the USMS OW National Championship meet) and absolutely destroyed the field. And this was no slouch of a field: two college swimmers - one went a 4:24 in the 500 free in March the other a 3:47 in the 400IM! For comparisons sake, Andy went a 5:06 and 4:43 respectively in those events. Startling, I know! But it doesn't end there. Adam Dawkins, who in March beat Andy by more than a full minute in the 1,000 free and is also an experienced Open Water swimmer having completed the English Channel just 4 weeks ago was no match for our hero. Andy beat Adam by 3 seconds per 100M!!! But it DOESN'T even end there!!! There were two more swimmers in the event who beat Andy by a minute or more in the mile in March. Both of these swimmers were bested by Andy by several minutes.
Just how good was this swim? Well it is not a stretch to say that it was the single greatest swim in the history of USMS. BY FAR. Imagine a 51 year old man going a 15:15 in the 1650 or 9:10 in the 1,000. It is difficult to compare open water events to pool events, but the margin of victory (one and half minutes over 5,000 M) over the quality field cannot be over-stated.
Quite honestly I can see no reason why Andy shouldn't be put in the International Swimming Hall of Fame on this swim alone. I know that John Smith just threw up in his mouth, but until Mr. Smith starts going a 43 in the 100 free he is panty waste compared to Andy. In fact, we all owe Andy a debt of gratitude because we no longer have to view the Smiths with any kind of awe as their collection of swims (as well as the swims of many others) have been so greatly eclipsed by this feat.
This swim should reinvent the sport of Masters swimming. Been stuck in the same rut for 14 years of Masters swimming? A good number of top 10 times per year but never that huge breakthrough. Well here you have it folks. Next year I too will have my 20% improvement. Mark me down for the World Record in the 50M free. Anything is possible, just dream big baby. Although technically why wait a year. Andy improved this much since June.
One ancillary note is we can add to this story is that we can finally put to bed the "late bloomers theory," as postulated by my friend Ion Beza. But that's a whole 'nother story.
(PS: Andy if this posts somehow ends up in front of you I personally want to tell you that I am sorry you have been put through this. But I will continue to be vociferous about the validity of this swim. From all accounts you are a swell guy. But you need to be honest with yourself and recognize that you are not capable of this miraculous feat. That is a tough thing to do, I am sure. But you didn't ask for the error and you don't have anything to be ashamed about. You are still one heck of a swimmer. Just not the greatest of all time.)
I don’t follow the discussion forums. I have more important things to do with my life. But when several friends ask me if I’ve been following the Andy Seibt controversy I took a look. To Lefy: get a life. Slick analyses, clearly you’ve put a lot of time into your self made issue but without all the facts and ultimately for what purpose? At least pkerch mostly takes the high road to suggest things that might be improved in running an OW event. But you want nothing more than a platform to demean and humiliate quite possibly an athlete’s finest moment of his life.
Let’s throw a few more facts into the mix. Andy swam the 400 meters at LC Nats going 4:41.63. 20 hours later he swam the 1st 400 of the 1500 in 4:37.87. I am sure your conclusion is that is only possible if Andy flipped 10 yards away from one turn and nobody noticed. Yes you will now point at that 4:37 pace translates to a 57:45, 5K. However, you are attacking both Andy’s achievement and integrity not the integrity of the race course which is one factor that can explain this curiosity. Nor do you have any facts about Andy’s training and taper focus for this summers’ competitions.
More: in 2000 Andy swam the FINA World Masters 5K in 59:24. Why can’t he swim 3 minutes faster with a stronger training focus, ideal conditions AND superior swim suit technology, especially the latter?
More facts: I swam my best BS 5k time ever in the 12 years doing this event. I beat my time from 2000 (same year as Andy’s :59) when I won the 5K National Championship. The guy I beat in 2000, by a mere 3 seconds, beat me this year by 3.5 minutes to win my division. Maybe I should question his win. I mean how can a 55 yo swim 3.5 minutes faster than he did as a 45 yo? Oh, what a coincidence, that is little more than Andy’s time improvement over the same period. ALSO – I know who the swimmer was that turned at the 1st orange buoy. We were chatting on the beach after the race exchanging “war stories”. This is what he told me. “I would have been faster but, I turned left at the 1st buoy and all of a sudden, there was nobody in front of me. After about 5 strokes I looked around and discovered my error and turned right to head for the orange turning buoy. What I feel bad is for all the swimmers who followed me and did not correct when I did. I wonder how much time they lost?” My friend wore a white cap, and it was not Andy who told me the story.
More: I swam 8 minutes faster than my BS 5K from 2007. Quite an improvement for a 56 yo! I sure am glad I fell under the radar so I would not be swamped with innuendos about cheating.
More: Within hours of his swim, long before goats raised any issues, Andy told me how this may have been the swim of his life and how he did it. Besides training and focus, he also told me how he swam straight between the buoys avoiding almost every swimmer along the way, most of whom veered slightly or a lot too far right.
By throwing out select circumstantial facts you then attempt to lead us into only two possible conclusions, “I mean one of two things: either he cheated or he made an honest mistake”. I offer two other possible explanations. It is plausible that the timing system messed up. Unless someone has pictures of Andy approaching the finish line showing a clock time of other than 9:06, that remains a possibility. There is also the more realistic possibility that he did the time! I say how dare you attack a person’s integrity with incomplete and flawed circumstantial evidence. If your intent was really: “when you see something is wrong, ………… If you feel that I have lambasted the guy then I have missed my mark. Because ………… I do not blame him and in fact I feel sorry for him. But wrong is wrong.” Then why the vitriolic personal attacks? However, herein there clearly is something wrong that does have to be addressed: it is your personalizing what could be, should be questions of OW events procedures not attacks on Andy.
Finally, and maybe I took the posts too seriously on this issue “I would love to have any training or nutrition tips as to how to improve to that extent” and regarding the list of 20 + questions……... Andy trains very hard and seriously, especially this past season which he survived without injury, for the 1st time in a long time. And don’t be crazy. Why should he give away his secrets to success when he can sell his formula. We are thinking about collaborating on a training book We were going to call it “Age is only a Number” but since that title is taken we are considering “GOAT is Just a Bitter Wantta Be”
Congratulations Andy, I’ve had a few “swims of my life” over the past 45 years, the last one 9 years ago. I still strive and train hard for the next one. You keep many of us inspired with hope that age does not matter.
In the end Andy has nothing to prove but to himself.
I don’t follow the discussion forums. I have more important things to do with my life. But when several friends ask me if I’ve been following the Andy Seibt controversy I took a look. To Lefy: get a life. Slick analyses, clearly you’ve put a lot of time into your self made issue but without all the facts and ultimately for what purpose? At least pkerch mostly takes the high road to suggest things that might be improved in running an OW event. But you want nothing more than a platform to demean and humiliate quite possibly an athlete’s finest moment of his life.
Let’s throw a few more facts into the mix. Andy swam the 400 meters at LC Nats going 4:41.63. 20 hours later he swam the 1st 400 of the 1500 in 4:37.87. I am sure your conclusion is that is only possible if Andy flipped 10 yards away from one turn and nobody noticed. Yes you will now point at that 4:37 pace translates to a 57:45, 5K. However, you are attacking both Andy’s achievement and integrity not the integrity of the race course which is one factor that can explain this curiosity. Nor do you have any facts about Andy’s training and taper focus for this summers’ competitions.
More: in 2000 Andy swam the FINA World Masters 5K in 59:24. Why can’t he swim 3 minutes faster with a stronger training focus, ideal conditions AND superior swim suit technology, especially the latter?
More facts: I swam my best BS 5k time ever in the 12 years doing this event. I beat my time from 2000 (same year as Andy’s :59) when I won the 5K National Championship. The guy I beat in 2000, by a mere 3 seconds, beat me this year by 3.5 minutes to win my division. Maybe I should question his win. I mean how can a 55 yo swim 3.5 minutes faster than he did as a 45 yo? Oh, what a coincidence, that is little more than Andy’s time improvement over the same period. ALSO – I know who the swimmer was that turned at the 1st orange buoy. We were chatting on the beach after the race exchanging “war stories”. This is what he told me. “I would have been faster but, I turned left at the 1st buoy and all of a sudden, there was nobody in front of me. After about 5 strokes I looked around and discovered my error and turned right to head for the orange turning buoy. What I feel bad is for all the swimmers who followed me and did not correct when I did. I wonder how much time they lost?” My friend wore a white cap, and it was not Andy who told me the story.
More: I swam 8 minutes faster than my BS 5K from 2007. Quite an improvement for a 56 yo! I sure am glad I fell under the radar so I would not be swamped with innuendos about cheating.
More: Within hours of his swim, long before goats raised any issues, Andy told me how this may have been the swim of his life and how he did it. Besides training and focus, he also told me how he swam straight between the buoys avoiding almost every swimmer along the way, most of whom veered slightly or a lot too far right.
By throwing out select circumstantial facts you then attempt to lead us into only two possible conclusions, “I mean one of two things: either he cheated or he made an honest mistake”. I offer two other possible explanations. It is plausible that the timing system messed up. Unless someone has pictures of Andy approaching the finish line showing a clock time of other than 9:06, that remains a possibility. There is also the more realistic possibility that he did the time! I say how dare you attack a person’s integrity with incomplete and flawed circumstantial evidence. If your intent was really: “when you see something is wrong, ………… If you feel that I have lambasted the guy then I have missed my mark. Because ………… I do not blame him and in fact I feel sorry for him. But wrong is wrong.” Then why the vitriolic personal attacks? However, herein there clearly is something wrong that does have to be addressed: it is your personalizing what could be, should be questions of OW events procedures not attacks on Andy.
Finally, and maybe I took the posts too seriously on this issue “I would love to have any training or nutrition tips as to how to improve to that extent” and regarding the list of 20 + questions……... Andy trains very hard and seriously, especially this past season which he survived without injury, for the 1st time in a long time. And don’t be crazy. Why should he give away his secrets to success when he can sell his formula. We are thinking about collaborating on a training book We were going to call it “Age is only a Number” but since that title is taken we are considering “GOAT is Just a Bitter Wantta Be”
Congratulations Andy, I’ve had a few “swims of my life” over the past 45 years, the last one 9 years ago. I still strive and train hard for the next one. You keep many of us inspired with hope that age does not matter.
In the end Andy has nothing to prove but to himself.
