Limit on Number of Events - Who Knew?

Well, if the meet flyer did not specify a limit then I think you have a right to complain. AFAIK there is not a limit on the number of events that can be entered in a single meet defined in the USMS rulebook but every meet I've entered in the last 2 years has had the event limit clearly stated on the meet announcement. But I think I may understand the issue. The SPMA site states in the meet entry section "Please use this form to submit your entries for any of our meets. Also, please enclose a photo copy of your USMS registration card. You may enter up to 5 individual events plus relays for one day meets. Championship meets will state max number of daily events in the meet information. There is no need to enclose the meet information sheet found below. " I've noticed that the meet announcement forms do not state an event entry limit. I'm assuming that the powers that be for SPMA feel that the statement on the website constitutes sufficient notification of event limits for SPMA meets. Since SPMA requires entries to be submitted using the SPMA consolidated meet entry form, they may also feel that the announcement on that form of a 5 event per day limit should be adequate. Personally, I disagree and feel it should be included on every meet announcement. If I happened to travel out to that area and just searched for meet announcements without going to the SPMA site, I would come to same conclusion and if hit by the Imp of the Perverse :afraid: could possibly enter more than 5 events thinking it was OK. Also, the meet director and the meet referee have no leeway to alter the meet from what is stated in the meet announcement. My vote would be that ALL your swims should count. There should not be an assumption that a swimmer will go to a website to find out meet requirements. If should be listed on the meet announcement.

I was wondering if I was the only Master's swimmer who didn't know that there was a five event limit on all meets? As an Arizona swimmer, I signed up for the MV LCM meet a couple of weeks ago because there was no event limit on the meet flyer. I like to swim a lot of things (more bang for my buck, so to speak). I entered ten events on-line (not knowing I was being a criminal). Nobody refuted my entry. Imagine my sadness when a week after my swims I was informed that I was retroactively DQ'ed for events 6-10! These were some of my best times ever. I am really down about this. I even asked our LMSC Director the year before (after attending a MV meet and swimming 10 events) why Arizona couldn't allow more events per day and I was told it is up to the Meet Director as to how may events are to be permitted. What are your thoughts? Am I being a baby or do I have a right to feel ripped off? A retroactive DQ? Is it even legal to DQ someone on this particular basis retroactively? Don't think so ... they let you swim, it's their problem and you shouldn't be penalized. Totally stinks, Brigid! The meet director, upon receiving your entries, should have contacted you to inform you of the 5 event SPMA rule --especially since it was not on the meet entry form -- and given you a chance to modify your entries. I would ask that this rule be waived in this instance as you, as an out of state swimmer, were reasonably relying on the meet entry form for guidance and on the meet director to enforce the entry rules. Their fault, not yours. Also, if worst comes to worst, is it possible that YOU could select the 5 events you'd like to count and not just have 6-10 automatically selected? Legal swims should not be simply thrown out. I vote that they should count as well.

You're post didn't specify if this was a one-day or multiple-day meet. Nonetheless... - The Rule Book specifies a five-event limit (for individual events) per day. Why five events? Those who have been around USMS long enough believe that this is a health and safety issue...that swimming more than five events in a day is a health risk. The daily five-event limit was never intended to be a tool to manage the length of a meet. - The fact that this limit is in the rule book is something that you should know, so perhaps you are correct in that you are the only one who doesn't know this because everyone else knows what the rules are. - In the case of the multiple-day meet, the total number of splashes you are allowed is governed by LMSC policy and the race director's discretion. This is something that must be published in the meet information. If it wasn't published, that is the fault of meet management. - If you indeed signed up for the meet "on-line", there should have been a mechanism that prevented you from signing up for events beyond the limit imposed by the meet management/LMSC. Therefore, the meet management screwed up in this case. - If this was a case of a one-day meet, the meet management should never have let you race more than five times...because of the daily five-event limit and what it is meant for. That would be plainly irresponsible on the meet management's part. Simply canceling or DQing your extra results is an administrative cover-up.

Kevin, I sort of see your point (you could make a similar point that saying a 1650 pool event is longer than 5 other misc pool events). However, keep in mind a cardiologist may in fact say a slow paced 25k is less risky health-wise than doing four all out 50 sprints followed by an all out 100 IM. I'm not a physician or in health care but do understand why capping 5 events in a day makes sense. Go ahead and knock yourself out in practice, but not on the meet director's watch... Jeff in MD

If they are retroactively eliminating five of your swims to comply with the rules, I think you should have a say as to which five are eliminated. They messed up by not questioning your entry before the swims, and therefore should give you the choice. That way they get to enforce the rules and you get to count your best swims. I think like Swoomer. I sent three e-mails requesting such a discussion with the person who DQ'ed me; but, never got a response.

1. If the rule says you can't swim 6 events in a day, then it only makes sense that you'd be disqualified for any event after your 5th one. You only broke the rule by swimming events #6 and beyond - you can't shift your DQ to the earlier events because those swims complied with the rule. 2. Aren't all disqualifications "after the fact," or "retroactive"? Last summer, a judge DQ'd me for an illegal fly kick in an IM - but the judge didn't tell me in real time, which meant that my swim was meaningless but painful nonetheless. 3. It would be nice if all of the meet software had features to enforce compliance with all the rules. And maybe someone knows a kid who knows C++ and wants to spend an afternoon writing the add-in code to scan for online violations. Until then, however, it looks like some rules will be enforced in the same way the IRS enforces its rules: you self-report your tax, and your compliance is enforced by selective audits, by reviews for violations that are obvious, and there's special enforcement if you want to be Secretary of the Treasury (or, in the case of masters, if you want your swim to count for a record). I, for one, like the on-line entry systems, their limits notwithstanding. Meanwhile, it's a bummer, not having the swims count. I hope you get another shot at those swims ...

2. Aren't all disqualifications "after the fact," or "retroactive"? Last summer, a judge DQ'd me for an illegal fly kick in an IM - but the judge didn't tell me in real time, which meant that my swim was meaningless but painful nonetheless. Ahhhhhhhh, but no swim is "meaningless", unless nothing is learned, grasshopper. And, yes, most are "after the fact". False starts, arriving to the blocks too late, etc., being a couple of exceptions. Certainly there are more.

3. It would be nice if all of the meet software had features to enforce compliance with all the rules. And maybe someone knows a kid who knows C++ and wants to spend an afternoon writing the add-in code to scan for online violations. Just about any meet management software has this capability (detecting too many events). -Rick

Event limits can also used to control meet timelines and to even out distribution of team points (a solid team with good depth can then outscore a lesser team that has one outstanding swimmer).

I have more than speed issues! I think I might have 'head case' issues. The more events I swim, the less time to anticipate the swim, the better my times!