I was wondering if I was the only Master's swimmer who didn't know that there was a five event limit on all meets? As an Arizona swimmer, I signed up for the MV LCM meet a couple of weeks ago because there was no event limit on the meet flyer. I like to swim a lot of things (more bang for my buck, so to speak). I entered ten events on-line (not knowing I was being a criminal). Nobody refuted my entry. Imagine my sadness when a week after my swims I was informed that I was retroactively DQ'ed for events 6-10! These were some of my best times ever. I am really down about this. I even asked our LMSC Director the year before (after attending a MV meet and swimming 10 events) why Arizona couldn't allow more events per day and I was told it is up to the Meet Director as to how may events are to be permitted.
What are your thoughts? Am I being a baby or do I have a right to feel ripped off?
Whoops, completely missed section 102.6 of the rule book which states the five event limit per day.
My appologies for providing you incorrect info, and contrary to what Frosty states that 'everyone else knows the rules' I didn't know that that there was a 5 event limit per day.
These were some of my best times ever.
Totally agree with you, but also have to point out that you should not be able to swim 10 events all-out - if you do best times after event 5, you have speed issues.
If they are retroactively eliminating five of your swims to comply with the rules, I think you should have a say as to which five are eliminated. They messed up by not questioning your entry before the swims, and therefore should give you the choice. That way they get to enforce the rules and you get to count your best swims.
Will they now refund your $$ for the events that did not count??
If MV = Mission Viejo, that meet was a flat fee entry. $20 no matter if you swam 1 event or 5 events
As others have pointed out, it's a USMS rule for 5 events per day.
In USA Swimming, there is a similar rule... in a timed final meet, 5 events per day. In a prelims/finals meet, 3 events per day. In USA Swimming where time trials are a factor... the rule is that a time trial swim counts towards your limit of 3 or 5 swims in the day. (But does not, generally, count towards the limit for a meet over the week-end.)
It's simply a health and safety thing.
Regarding the DQs... the interpretation of things like that has been relatively unwavering in my experience with that. The USMS rule I believe says you can only compete in 5 per day. In USMS, most meets will limit you to 5 entries per day, and assume you may swim all of your events.
Especially in the USA Swimming context, it is common to over-enter events on any day, and then scratch down appropriately. I've never seen this allowed in a USMS context, because it just gets confusing for people. Also, USMS has a no-penalty no-show policy, whereas USA Swimming (generally) penalizes for a no-show.
In USA Swimming, for meets where there is a scratch deadline (usually the evening before), it is the responsibility of the Administrative Referee or Clerk of Course to make sure nobody is over-entered for the next day. If there's a limit of 5 events, and you're still in 6, then the AdminRef should automatically scratch you from the last event to be swum that day.
In the USMS context, if you swim 6 events in a day where there is a limit of 5, the retroactive DQ is rather clear. When you dove in for swims #1, #2, #3, #4, and #5, you were in compliance with the rules. As soon as you dove in for swim #6, you were over the limit. The first five events were closed for you.
It does happen from time to time that these administrative rules need to get applied retroactively. For example, if it were determined after-the-fact that your USMS registration card was fraudulent, you would obviously be DQed from all events retroactively.
-Rick
You must admit that since I can sign up for a sanctioned 25k national championships, using safety as the reason to limit someone to 6 swims all of which are 500 yards or under is a little silly.
Will they now refund your $$ for the events that did not count??
My experience is mostly with USAS meets. In my area:
DQs are never refunded, and your time isn't an official time.
Meet hosts generally don't refund entry fees for whatever purpose - death in family, rainouts, illness, swine flu, pool closed, etc. If you get a credit or a refund that's pretty generous of the meet host.
Usually there is no limit on entries, just on how many you actually swim. So any entries system (online or manual) can't prevent you from over-entering but it would be nice if there was a warning.
As far as Meet Management software being able to report, it is kind of a nuisance as it will cheerfully report how many entries a swimmer made but not how many were swum, so it's hard to keep up with status as the meet progresses. Many of the Masters meets I've been at run a skeleton meet operations/officiating crew so this can fall through the cracks.
