FINA says Dubai Charter doesn't apply to Masters

I think anybody who owns a B70 or other tech suit certainly does consider masters swimming to be a serious competitive organization. It is as serious (possibly more) than any other adult athletic venture. When you've got (admittedly a few) of the elite Masters competing at Trials, Grand Prix's, etc. and (more) with aspirations to do so, you're in the serious competitive zone. While many of us might not train as much as we'd like to or as we could when we're younger, those competitive fires are stoked pretty high when many (most?) of us are on the blocks at a meet.

Once FINA has re-issued the list of approved suits and finalized their suit criteria of jan 1, 2010, the suit companies will focus their efforts on making the new suits under the new guidelines. What USMS should consider doing is to allow the suits that have been used for the last year and before until they are no longer avaiable(which really won't be that long of time) for purchase Your assumption is that the makers will stop making the suits that aren't approved by FINA, but I don't think that's absolutely guaranteed especially if those suits are still allowed for masters. Take a company like blueseventy that has been in the wetsuit business. Their bread and butter is making neoprene suits and that was their innovation in the pool suit realm. If FINA rules that suits cannot contain any impermeable material will they even choose to remain in the market? Maybe they'll see masters as a continued market for the Nero and will focus their efforts to that end.

In any event, I think this is a real boneheaded move. The rules regarding suits should be the same for everyone. Why? Masters already has at least one rule different than age group/elite competiton in terms of swimming. Masters can do breastroke kick for fly while others can't. There are probably some others that I don't know about but why can't we have a separate ruling for suits? Who's it gonna hurt?

I have always had a beef about the high cost of the suit. I was told that this is America, we buy what we want. It was also bandied about how 500 smackaroos for a suit is chicken feed compared to other sports. If the suit is legal I can sort-of understand the above arguments. Now it appears that the suit is not legal, according to FINA. Unlike your worthlesss suit, your argument about the cost holds no water. Or should I say air. I have my druthers, as well, especially when it comes to paying full retail for anything, suits included. Some of you just aren't very savvy (or seemingly so) when it comes to "buying". I picked up my 2 (two) B70's for a grand total of $ 552.00 (US), one a full and the other a kneeskin (shortjohn). Both brand new, in the mesh bag, price includes tax. (Note: divide by 2 = 276.00 - this is less expensive than a new FSII, retail) If you're talking about $500+ dollar suits, you must be referring to the Speedo LZR, 'cuz you're not anywhere near the realm of the price range for my suit(s).

I think it hurts masters swimming being seen as a serious competitive organization. I don't really think the butterfrog rule is comparable. In that case the rule exists because of history: older folks learned the stroke that way. Besides, no one will argue that butterfrog is faster. Outside of masters swimmers who race frequently,do most people really consider this to be a serious competitive organization anyway? And yes, I do believe it is comparable. I do believe there is a general agreement that based on body type and event(s), some suits help some people more than others. Butterfrog is the same way. There are individual swimmers out there that feel butterfrog is faster for them vs. using a dolphin kick. I do think after jan. 1, 2010, usms will start falling in line with FINA on future suit approval for reasons stated in previous post. I think we should be allowed to use our current suits, that have been previously approved last year and before until they are worn out. Most suit companies will probably offer masters swimming some discount to take the suits off their hands. Once they are out of the suits, they won't produce them. Individuals won't be able to buy hordes of them, esp. if sold around the world, so we are looking at maybe 1-2 years before they are used up. Not really that long in the grand scheme of things.

When an asterisk has its own asterisk, can anybody still see it? --Zen Master Jim Jim, I don't know, but if it can be done, it will take a Michigan man to do it. I do think though, that in 2010 they should outlaw the Blue70, LZR and every other suit that provides an advantage because of flotation. The WR's which have been swum in these suits (128 in the LZR alone, I think) will be around for a long time. That's a problem! What's wrong with delineating those WR's with an asterisk?

But was the B70 ever actually "approved"? I hope so - in the meantime, I'd be glad I went for two of the suits that shall remain nameless :cool:. The second one after the April 1 date for "returns" as a "just in case". At somepoint in time, FINA "approved" the B70 for pool use. I do believe that blueseventy use to have a copy of the FINA approval letter on their website to show that it was ok for pool use. To me, that letter would indicate "approved"

I think anybody who owns a B70 or other tech suit certainly does consider masters swimming to be a serious competitive organization. So I think it's those people who would be most interested in maintaining that perception (even if it is solely in their own minds). In my mind, having a different rule on suits will absolutely hurt any possible perception that USMS is a serious competitive organization. The people that own the suits, aren't the ones I am talking about. Heck, people outside of swimming probably don't know there is much of a suit debate or what master swimming is to start with. My point is this for masters. If the "tech suits" had been granted approval at somepoint over the last few years, they should be grandfathered into usms swimming. We all know the suits don't have that long of a life. Once FINA has re-issued the list of approved suits and finalized their suit criteria of jan 1, 2010, the suit companies will focus their efforts on making the new suits under the new guidelines. What USMS should consider doing is to allow the suits that have been used for the last year and before until they are no longer avaiable(which really won't be that long of time) for purchase Once our suits are used up, we will be looking at suits that fall under the new guidelines. USMS will be adopting the new guidelines, even if by default.

Jack, how can you be a rodent when you are such an excellent grasshopper, grasshopper? Zen Master Jim

Your assumption is that the makers will stop making the suits that aren't approved by FINA, but I don't think that's absolutely guaranteed especially if those suits are still allowed for masters. Take a company like blueseventy that has been in the wetsuit business. Their bread and butter is making neoprene suits and that was their innovation in the pool suit realm. If FINA rules that suits cannot contain any impermeable material will they even choose to remain in the market? Maybe they'll see masters as a continued market for the Nero and will focus their efforts to that end. Your right, it is an assumption. I am trying to put forth a possible suggestion/ compermise for masters swimming that may eventually get usms to come into agreement with FINA, will allowing suits to be used that were previously ok'd until they aren't fit to be used. This way, we don't have to go out to purchase new suits immediately and we can get our value out of the suits we have already purchased.