FINA says Dubai Charter doesn't apply to Masters

Obviously there are far more age-groupers than masters, but I wonder if the masters market is really as small as people are assuming. I think masters is a big enough market. One of the other sports I enjoy is snow skiing and there are lots of small, boutique ski manufacturers around these days that probably only sell a few hundred pairs of skis per year. They survive just by selling these so I don't see why a swimsuit manufacturer couldn't continue with a "masters only" suit espeically considering they'd still be selling their other suits to the non-masters market. In any event, I think this is a real boneheaded move. The rules regarding suits should be the same for everyone.

I seriously wonder whether FINA has any lawyers at all. Nothing in any of the (apparently) duly-adopted rules I have seen suggests that the rules on swimwear would apply differently to Masters than to non-Masters. True. We would seem to come within the published rubric. Perhaps, as Mr. Lord thinks, though we are "splendid," we are so insignificant as to not even be on FINA's radar screen unless WRs are involved. Hence, the complete lack of attention to how FINA's bumbling around may effect us. Midas: Don't know about that. I'm sure there are masters that would want to opt for a durable speed suit rather than the easily ripped FINA approved speed suits. If there were, as some have said, literally "a sea of B70s at Nationals," you'd think there'd be a market in masters.

I am curious about the relative sizes of the USAS and USMS markets. Everyone is assuming that the masters market is tiny in comparison...but I tell you, when I go to just run-of-the-mill meets, tech suits are MUCH more in evidence at masters meets than at age-group meets. I had to think on this for a second because it is true, on face value. However, upon further reflection, a small kid's meet is 500 kids and a big USMS meet (east coast anyway) is 150. And, there are typically 2 or 3 large multi day USAS meets every weekend around here and packed to the gills. Toss in the Summer league meets during the week and I bet the balance is way towards the kids versus adults in terms of tech suits. HOWEVER, I will grant you that Masters probably buy tech suits in higher percentages than kiddies. I tend to think that while the kids and NCAAs may be the sweet spot for the companies, Masters could represent a nice segment as well. After all, there are wetsuit companies out there that mostly only cater to adults. It does cost a lot to ship a $0.25 suit from Vietnam to the US and sell it for $50.

I am curious about the relative sizes of the USAS and USMS markets. Everyone is assuming that the masters market is tiny in comparison...but I tell you, when I go to just run-of-the-mill meets, tech suits are MUCH more in evidence at masters meets than at age-group meets. Obviously there are far more age-groupers than masters, but I wonder if the masters market is really as small as people are assuming. Old, fat people with disposable incomes, desperate to recapture glory days...sounds like a winner! :) I've been trying to think of an entrepreneurial venture to start ... maybe there is a nice, niche market here. Now, if only I knew the first thing about suit design and production, I'd be set. I wonder if a "Bondage Speed Suit" would send the wrong message ...:) I do think, though, like other posters have mentioned that the major suit makers will fall in line with FINA certainly by 2010 and phase out any tech suits that aren't FINA approved. I'm fine with that if that gives us all the rest of the year to wear out our current suits. I still think B70's getting shafted and that this nonsense about "textile" only suits is a red herring to protect Speedo.

Who's it gonna hurt? I think it hurts masters swimming being seen as a serious competitive organization. I don't really think the butterfrog rule is comparable. In that case the rule exists because of history: older folks learned the stroke that way. Besides, no one will argue that butterfrog is faster.

All, Kathy Kasey Chair of the Rules Committee is USMS spokesperson on this issue. Whatever statements Kathy issues is the position of USMS. The statement she issued on behalf of the Rules Committee on June 1 still stands (www.usms.org/.../20090601swimsuits.pdf). The Rules Committee continues to monitor the situation and gather information on a daily basis. What is clear is the Recognition and Awards Committee is continuing to accept world records and Top 10 swims for Masters certification. As more information is made available and the Rules Committee is able to analyze, they will issue statements. Rob

If the charter doesn't apply to masters, then maybe USMS will take the stance that all suits that were approved prior to Jan. 1, 2009 will be allowed in USMS events and any new suits that are developed must comply with FINA's new suit regulations. But was the B70 ever actually "approved"? This way, current suit will still be able to be used until they are worn out and any new suit developed will be in accordance with the new guidelines. This will take sometime, but eventually USMS would fall back inline with FINA. Plus, it allows people the chance to use their current suits, and not have that much confusion on approved/not approved suits. I hope so - in the meantime, I'd be glad I went for two of the suits that shall remain nameless :cool:. The second one after the April 1 date for "returns" as a "just in case".

And yes, I do believe it is comparable. I do believe there is a general agreement that based on body type and event(s), some suits help some people more than others. Butterfrog is the same way. There are individual swimmers out there that feel butterfrog is faster for them vs. using a dolphin kick. I'm sure there may be some masters out there that couldn't complete a 200 fly without bf'ing some of it, if not all of it.

Outside of masters swimmers who race frequently,do most people really consider this to be a serious competitive organization anyway? I think anybody who owns a B70 or other tech suit certainly does consider masters swimming to be a serious competitive organization. So I think it's those people who would be most interested in maintaining that perception (even if it is solely in their own minds). In my mind, having a different rule on suits will absolutely hurt any possible perception that USMS is a serious competitive organization.

You took the words right out of my mouth, Midas.