I think we can all be certain that the suits are here to stay -- love them, hate them, it does not really matter -- Speedo, TYR and the others will not allow the suits to all over sudden disappear.
But, we as Masters swimmers have to make a decision about our own reasoning to compete -- why do we compete in swim meets ?
There are many reasons - social, participating in a sport beats the hell out of watching one on TV and so on --- but for me, 2 of the main reasons are the competition aspects. We obviously compete against other swimmers --- but more than maybe many other sports, we compete against ourselves. I can tell you my best 100 Free from every season over the last 30 years (10 of which I did not compete).
I have used most of the suits and did very well -- I set some personal bests and also achieved some record swims, but I have no idea how my times really compare to other seasons. I can keep telling myself that all that speedwork and lifting paid off - but I just don't know.
I like to give a golf comparison -- let's say you have a home course and you always shoot in the low 90s going from the Blue Tees --- well guess what, if you are going from the white tees you will probably average high 80s and going from the red you may get down to the mid to low 80s. But you are not a better player because of it. The LZR seems to be the "white tees" and the new Jaked suit may be the "red tees".
I think we really have to make a decision now to what matters more -- your personal records and history of swimming or the competition against other swimmers ? For me, this may change from meet to meet - but I must be able to stay honest with myself and be able to compare my times -- I do not want to be cheating myself.
Old generations suits (Fastskin Pro) only for: all major Masters meets (individual swims) except for Worlds. That means, I am ok to lose a few places in a meet, in order to know what my time really means. I could just go really old school -- but I think the older generation suits are pretty equal to shaving -- and they allow you to be "shaved" and swim fast in season, which is a huge plus.
LZR / Blue70 for: relays, Worlds and maybe some USS meets, if I am going for a time standard. I want to give any relay my fastest time possible - I swimming Worlds to win the title, so if others use the suits, I will have to do the same - if I go to USS meets, I may use them to get into the finals or to make a time standard for a big meet.
It may take some adjustments - but I think it will work --
Who is with me ?
Former Member
We go round and round on this topic and I suspect no one is seriously questioning their own position. Fine, I suppose the one point all of us can agree on that FINA seems to have seriously mishandled the whole question. Do we have unanimity on that point at least?
By the way, speaking purely from my swimming fan side (my competitive side admits that given certain circumstances I would probably pony up for the threads) I am suffering from world record fatigue. The last little while, whatever the causes, has worn out my excitement in a way that hasn't happened before in all the time since I started paying attention to elite swimming again (1984).
Some suit research -- and that does not even take the Jaked suit into account ...
www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm
If they draw a hard line after this year, we may have Flo-Jo type records on the books - PRs and WRs.
men's swimmers at NCAA's that did not swim for Auburn about some of their swimmers showing up in the Jaked suit
I am curious about that - I heard that some of them had the new Jaked suit - if so, can we assume that Auburn won the NCAA title based on the better suits ???
Also - are we going to have a lot of long faces at meets next year ??
Geek?
Sometimes the swimmers let their coaches do most of the talking:
www.shanghaidaily.com/.../article_399126.htm
Some are...sort of Ok with them...
www.floswimming.org/.../5640-should-there-be-a-limit-to-suit-technology
Pieter sums things up pretty well I think:
articles.latimes.com/.../sp-swim27
I think Gary is correct that the debate sadly has left the discussion of PED's in the dust:
olympics.blogs.nytimes.com/.../
More:
www.swimnews.com/.../6806
You may also want to talk to any of the men's swimmers at NCAA's that did not swim for Auburn about some of their swimmers showing up in the Jaked suit...
But that was my point. The suits have made times relative.
My point is that we all know the suits make a small/big/huge difference.
Therefore, it's not realistic to compare Bousquet's times to Biondi or Jager. They were the best at their time, no doubt.
If some high-schooler now goes 19 low, does anyone really think he's better than they were?
It is important that FINA makes sure suits are "comparable", or you will continue the escalation. I am not pro-B70, pro-LZR, pro-Jaked, or pro-TYR. If the playing field can be leveled, a la some other sports with technology restrictions, then we can all stop talking about this, and get back to 'roids and HGH. I am happy to race anyone at any time - 'cept you. As long as we have the same suits, it's all good.
And Verhaeren is a blow-hard - one Dutchman to another.
That's seems pretty cowardly to me that the ones with the most to gain or lose from this are saying......nothing. Well, I guess once FINA rules, some might have plenty to say but why not get it out there BEFORE the ruling? Especially, if the comments are not in favor of the new suit technology. Sorry, crying in the dark is just that.Fortunately Jason Lezak, not contractually bound to a manufacturer did just that. He unequivocally thinks it's all a joke. He wants the Jaked banned.
Change is part of life, and part of sports. You race whoever is there on a given day, not against athletes from the past or the future.
This a common refrain we keep hearing. It's change. It's progress. It's evolution.
There is more to it than that. Let's be realistic. Previous advancements in this sport in the past haven't been met with the same amount of concern and anxiety. Review the sport's history. Nothing approaches this. The "Belgrade skin suits" in the 70s raised more hackles for being "immodest" on women.
It goes well beyond the issue of putting past greats and their world marks in the shade. Forget the times and records. It goes straight to the issue of suits potentially deciding races. Period. Yeah that's uncomfortable. The suggestion makes some people angry and exasperated. Tough. We're not talking about a tenth here or a fraction there. It's one thing for all swimmers to have access to every suit but if the suits don't have the same affect on each athlete that raises questions. An improvement differential would be prejudicial to the outcome even if all the athletes wear the same kit. Are the better athletes losing to inferior ones? Plenty of coaches seem to think so. The question of measuring yourself against past performances is also tricky unless you were wearing the same suit.
I think it's clear that most people have basically entrenched themselves into one position or the other on the tech suit issue. Very little said here will change minds. But if you think this is all a tempest in a teapot conjured up by nostalgists and luddites you're kidding yourself.
The Jaked is an easy target. Don't think he was really going out on a limb there. What about B70 and the LZR?
It's an easy target for a reason. What do you think about it?
I don't expect the LZR to be banned. Should it be? I don't know. I don't have a problem with suits that give an approximate similar advantage to each swimmer. If there's a sizable difference in how a suit impacts different people I think that's a problem. Past times or records can always be contextualized if necessary.
So what to do? i don't know....I've always considered myself a "technical" swimmer...do I give that up for the "easy" way out to faster times with new improved suits and basterdized strokes?
I don't know yet...
I don't know about this talk of bastardized strokes, Paul ... everyone does things differently. No right way to do things!
Seems to me discrediting "bastardised" strokes is a step towards "nostalgia and luddism" that is some of the issue with tech suits.
Things change...sometimes people change there styles in the middle of a meet and still get a a result.
Suits: meh! yawn! They obviously help but you have to look at other changes the swimmers have made to their regime. My training changes got me swimming faster...
How soon do you estimate before the transition period is over and FINA no longer sucks? :D
Skip
The earlier of:
1/1/10, or
.....or our impending death.
Hopefully, FINA learns from its mistakes, but it probably won't so there may be another transition period (TBD). I am thinking the next transition period will be caused by a loosening of the rules Fall of 2011 to stir up lots of pre-Olympic hype.
Tim
