I think we can all be certain that the suits are here to stay -- love them, hate them, it does not really matter -- Speedo, TYR and the others will not allow the suits to all over sudden disappear.
But, we as Masters swimmers have to make a decision about our own reasoning to compete -- why do we compete in swim meets ?
There are many reasons - social, participating in a sport beats the hell out of watching one on TV and so on --- but for me, 2 of the main reasons are the competition aspects. We obviously compete against other swimmers --- but more than maybe many other sports, we compete against ourselves. I can tell you my best 100 Free from every season over the last 30 years (10 of which I did not compete).
I have used most of the suits and did very well -- I set some personal bests and also achieved some record swims, but I have no idea how my times really compare to other seasons. I can keep telling myself that all that speedwork and lifting paid off - but I just don't know.
I like to give a golf comparison -- let's say you have a home course and you always shoot in the low 90s going from the Blue Tees --- well guess what, if you are going from the white tees you will probably average high 80s and going from the red you may get down to the mid to low 80s. But you are not a better player because of it. The LZR seems to be the "white tees" and the new Jaked suit may be the "red tees".
I think we really have to make a decision now to what matters more -- your personal records and history of swimming or the competition against other swimmers ? For me, this may change from meet to meet - but I must be able to stay honest with myself and be able to compare my times -- I do not want to be cheating myself.
Old generations suits (Fastskin Pro) only for: all major Masters meets (individual swims) except for Worlds. That means, I am ok to lose a few places in a meet, in order to know what my time really means. I could just go really old school -- but I think the older generation suits are pretty equal to shaving -- and they allow you to be "shaved" and swim fast in season, which is a huge plus.
LZR / Blue70 for: relays, Worlds and maybe some USS meets, if I am going for a time standard. I want to give any relay my fastest time possible - I swimming Worlds to win the title, so if others use the suits, I will have to do the same - if I go to USS meets, I may use them to get into the finals or to make a time standard for a big meet.
It may take some adjustments - but I think it will work --
Who is with me ?
Do you think Austin Staab kicks 15 yds underwater for all 4 lengths but on the last one after his breakout he swims the last 10 yds without taking a breath and goes 44.18 in the 100 fly...without one of these suits?
Little has been discussed about this feat but it may be one of the more incredible things ever seen in our sport.
Nope, of course the suit helped! Suits make everyone faster, just how much faster is what is unclear.
For myself, I wonder if masters have really harnessed this edge yet? I would think you'd have to train in the suit frequently to really get a feel for this. (And my own SDKs have sucked this last year until recently. I think the nose clip is a PED.)
And how much do you think it helps the true masters kings of the underwater? I've seen Mike Ross and Chris swim enough to know they'd be under for 15 meters without the suit ... Perhaps they're slightly more efficient with the suit ...
I can't just go and say - all blame goes to FINA.
Where FINA really went wrong was their laissez faire attitude. About the only thing I remember them not going for was when TYR came out with the arm bands. And up until last year there seemed to be little reason for them to step in. People were swimming fast times in the new suits, but not unexpectedly fast. They probably didn't realize at the time that the latest generation of suits would be such a quantum leap.
I say - we are just as much at fault as FINA (at least those of us that are swimming in the new suits).
I don't. FINA makes the rules and we follow them. If you want to swim fast you should do whatever you can within these rules to do so.
ehoch - I don't feel the need to either assign or take any blame. This isn't world peace, saving the economy or anything else of importance, it's swimming. I can spend or not spend what I want and compete within the rules. I have never seen so much hand wringing over something that people can elect to do with their own money. Adult fitness is about fun and fitness and doesn't need this silly amount of moral discussion. If the suits are banned tomorrow, fine, I'll still swim and vice-versa.
We are also at fault - we pretty much know it's wrong,
I say - we are just as much at fault as FINA (at least those of us that are swimming in the new suits).
I have no idea what you're talking about. Speak for yourself and don't use the word "we."
I'd like to throw out this question:
To those wearing the B70 (or the LZR or Jaked, to be fair) would you swim in a major competition without it (if you currently own one)?
Why not?
I'd love to see the people who are now in the USMS TT (where they hadn't been before, ever), breaking records, swimming "stupid fast" where they hadn't before, take off the B70 and LZR and swim. I am astounded at the number of people (that I swim with, or know of) with huge time drops who say "it isn't the suit". I keep hearing in many places, "I trained really hard," or "The suit can't swim for me," or "It's not cheating." If all of the above is true then why is there such controversy?
I wear the B70, but I'd be just as happy to swim without it, if everyone else did too. It's all about the level playing field.
And FINA didn't drop the ball, they missed the game completely!
The rantings of someone trying to "find it to bring it".
I'd like to throw out this question:
To those wearing the B70 (or the LZR or Jaked, to be fair) would you swim in a major competition without it (if you currently own one)?
Why not?
I'd love to see the people who are now in the USMS TT (where they hadn't been before, ever), breaking records, swimming "stupid fast" where they hadn't before, take off the B70 and LZR and swim. I am astounded at the number of people (that I swim with, or know of) with huge time drops who say "it isn't the suit". I keep hearing in many places, "I trained really hard," or "The suit can't swim for me," or "It's not cheating." If all of the above is true then why is there such controversy?
I wear the B70, but I'd be just as happy to swim without it, if everyone else did too. It's all about the level playing field.
And FINA didn't drop the ball, they missed the game completely!
The rantings of someone trying to "find it to bring it".
And I've heard a lot of the opposite -- the "suit swims the race for me," the suit is "magic," the suit lets me "cruise," the suit "let's me bring home a race or floats me home," the suit "makes me go further underwater," the suit "compresses all my fat," etc. No one seems to believe that once you've swum in it a zillion times you may have seen the benefit of the suit already ...
Do you know that many people who were not previously in the TT that are now by virtue of B70/LZR use? I am not familiar with all the rankings, but, at least in my age group, it seems like pretty much the same women are in the TT.
To those wearing the B70 (or the LZR or Jaked, to be fair) would you swim in a major competition without it (if you currently own one)?
Why not?
I don't find this to be a compelling question. Do you ask tennis players if they'd play a big tourney with a wooden racket, a marathoner to run in 1970s canvas shoes, a cyclist to ride a road race on a steel frame, a golfer to play with steel headed clubs, etc? The fact is that technology happens and people want the latest and greatest. It's pretty simple to me, you train your butt off (no comments Fort) and then you buy the legal gear that maximizes the training. You aren't going to magically swim fast just by buying a suit.
Sports is not about the level playing field, never has been and never will be and that is what makes sports so interesting. The more the playing field is arbitrarily leveled the more boring the sport.
Believe me Geek I was not trying to be compelling. I am merely asking a question, that so far no one has answered.
Why not swim without the B70 (Jaked or LZR)?
Fort- I started swimming Masters in 1993 (not that that is here or there), but you see "trends" and recognize names and people over time. There are enough people, that I have observed, that are doing quite a bit better and they are wearing a new tech suit.
Would you be willing to race for a title without your tech suit?
the new tech suits look feel and smell like neoprene. they are neoprene. so yes they are a form of cheating. FINA already blew it. the suits have been worn and records shattered. like i said before, its over. too late to go back. just as MLB blew it now swimming has blown it. damage is done. the integrity of the sport has been compromised.
this forum blasted Vlad P for doping yet all those that blasted him wear tech suits. is there a difference? which form of cheating gives a better time drop, PEDs or tech suits? arent we all cheaters?
again the root of all of this evil is the mighty $$$$$$$$. does anyone think that the makers of these suits give a sh*t about the integrity of the sport or the records of the past swim champions? nope. they just want their money.
where do we draw the line? suits, PEDs? what about creatine, muscle milk, ZMA, HMB, mahuang, Tribulus, and so on.....
what makes PEDs different from the chemicals you buy at GNC? why are they legal? non of this garbage was around when spitz swam, that dood had a mustache and didnt lift weights, he wore a nylon baggy suit.
to me the line between cheating and not cheating is very blurred.
so i think its over. is this progress? can you build a fence around progress and limit it? prob not. let it go. let it go down this path. its the new culture of sports and the world we live in.
all the crooked funny business started with politics. so i was disgusted and turned to sports for reality and clean healthy competitiveness. well, turns out that boxing went ugly. then baseball to save itself financially after a strike cancelled the world series, MLB turned its head to the drug problem and let mcguire, barry and sammy ruin it. then NASCAR blows up and those fellas get caught cheating on a weekly basis. then the track athletes, then the cyclists, then the NBA finds out refs are cheating................now swimming has been offically tainted, the one last clean sport, the sport we all grew up with that had a bunch of clean honest families participating.
ITS OVER FOLKS.
this isnt Mark spitz aau swimming anymore
its bong hittin self made millionaires like phelps wearing a crooked flatbill hanging out with ray lewis and lebron james and partying with rappers and strippers and warren sapp. its dopers trying to get sponsorships and fame. the sport has been pimped out to big money corporations run by CEOs that want to "get theirs"
all this being said - there are a couple of ok dudes left -
the only good guys left are lezak and piersol....soul guys full of heart, genuine throwbacks.
we as humans are our own worst enemies. we are imploding.
who really cares about any of this nonsense anymore...
we'll all be dead soon
