Normal Swimming Protocol?

Ourswimmer, I think you bring up some really interesting points. And for the most part, at least in theory, I agree. As to what actually happens and how things play out. . . that's another story. Well, no. If four other people in the lane are doing a set of 100s on (say) a 1:15 per 100 interval, and Person #5 can't repeat them on faster than 1:25, Person #5 needs to move to another lane if one is available, even if Person #5 knows that Persons #2 and #3 couldn't make 1:25 either if they took off their fins. Person #5 is not the fin police. I just have to wonder why Person #5 cannot be the fin police yet persons #1-4 can be the speed police. Are #1-4 not messing up the #5 person's workout? Why would fins be accepted and missing the interval not be accepted? In my opinion, fins can be very challenging to swim around/ with due to all of the excess wake created just as swimming around someone you are lapping can be challenging. Or are we just going on majority rules in this scenario? That makes sense to me but then what if you have an even 3 to 3 split of fins vs. interval and no extra lanes? But if charm and coaching fail then Person #5, not the fin-wearers, is out of sync and is being rude if s/he insists on staying and getting lapped halfway through the set. I'm really feeling for poor little #5er right about now. He's in a lane where everyone has fins and is creating a lot of wake and turbulence and he's only been lapped once or twice at most by the completion of the set. I've been on both sides of this situation (lapping and being lapped) and as the person doing the lapping I don't find it any more inconvenient to lap someone once in a set than to swim in a lane with a bunch of finners all of whom I can actually outswim or keep up with; however, it's like swimming in a washing machine during spin cycle at best. Why do the finners get priority over someone a bit slower? And what if you are in a lane where you can perform 80 to 90% of the set at interval but because of varying intervals within the set, you fail to make the other 10 to 20% and end up being lapped in that portion of the set? I think that's pretty accepted across the board as being appropriate to stay in that lane. So why not be able to be lapped once or twice in the other scenario? I think you are just describing a difference in coaching style, between the age-group coach who is very bossy and the masters coach who is maybe not bossy enough. Agreed. Coach sets the tone directly and indirectly (by not saying anything re: culturally unacceptable behaviors). But really, those of us who go to masters-only workouts are not just farting around. Not sure what compelled you to state this or what it has to do with the conversation. Uh yeah. I've had some masters swimmers die two lanes down from me when swimming @ practice. So I don't think your description is the "norm" at all. In my personal experience it's the norm as these behaviors are what occur at my practices, not occasionally, but daily. And in retrospect, it's dang fascinating to watch scenarios play out. I'm never bored. All this being said, I think if anyone wants to try and hang with a lane that's fast for them, that they should go for it. I don't see how this is any different than someone throwing on paddles or fins or a wet suit. If they end up being lapped too frequently, they'll move on their own. I guess this is not a popular view, but I know I for one will be much more welcoming of swimmers who want to give it a try. If the kids can welcome me, an old fart, who wants to try to swim in a super fast lane (and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail), then I can sure return the favor to others.

In my opinion it means staying out of the other swimmers' way. I don't mind if someone in the lane has to skip a 50 now and then or stop at the wall and let others pass, but if they make you pass them constantly then it's time for them to find a different lane. It's a good day for me if I'm lapping people constantly. :) Great job on your 500 BTW! Sub 5:00??!! An experienced coach can work it so that people will be minimally lapped. I've seen sets be created to prevent excessive lapping (short distances) and to ensure success for certain swimmers. Makes sense to keep the peace so to speak.

My team, for the most part, does the sets as written. We have one guy who uses paddles for everything, but for the most part people aren't switching things up--at least not in the lanes I swim in. That said, I don't have a problem with people doing their own thing. But I do think the onus is on them to stay out of the way of the swimmers who ARE doing the written workout. I'm starting to think that there are some pretty significant differences between west coast and east coast swimming. . . I think that in general the west coast has a larger number of faster swimmers - just look at the records. I'm lobbying my husband to move out there.

In my limited masters experience, people sort themselves and lanes out just fine. In our program, everyone does the coached workout with intervals and distances or reps adjusted by the coach to suit each lane. People populate each lane based on similar speed/conditioning. Intervals dictate who stays in a lane or has to move elsewhere. Regarding toys, If they slow you down enough to miss that lane's intervals, you better move. If they enable you to go faster, that's great, step up and work with some faster people. One guy can use fins to do 100's at around my speed. The last 2 days he's jumped in and paced right next to me for much of the workout (while wearing fins). He worked harder and longer than he normally would, so more power to him. I probably went faster too because he was there. No problem there. Another guy is one of those who can go faster with paddles (I never understood that). He's the same speed I am in practice, but tends to mentally fade towards the end of longer challenging sets. He'll throw on the paddles and keep going. It lets him finish the set at high intensity and keeps pushing me too. Regarding the early leavers, that is annoying, especially when Coach is calling out finishing times. Use that as an incentive to always, always catch them and go past the last 25. Even if you have the same finishing time, they know you started out behind.

I think that a person has an obligation not to impede his/her teammates and their practice. If someone constantly wears paddles and can't control his arms, hitting people, that's a problem. Other than that, I don't see why someone else's decisions about equipment should be my business. I'm not the person's coach or parent. And even if I were, masters swimmers are adults, not children; they are perfectly able to decide whether their use of equipment is excessive or not without hearing my voice on the matter. The coach can offer his/her opinion, or suggest less dependence on equipment, but most masters coaches I know won't press the matter. I think that's great, it is one of the charms of masters swimming. Always the voice of reason. What I'm getting out of this thread is that I think we are all in agreement that equipment will be used when people want to use it. What is fascinating to me is that some of these equipment lovers seem to have a problem if someone who chooses to not use equipment wants to stay in their lane and they are a bit slow for the lane. God forbid if a an equipment lover has to pass someone once or even twice during a set. If I'm leading a lane (and I'm not wearing equipment) and I've got to deal with two paddlers (and needing to avoid their windmill arms and drafting) and two finners (wake and drafting), adding in a slightly slower person (that I may have to pass) will not make a difference to me. But all of a sudden, the finners and paddlers are annoyed if they have to pass this person on occasion. Sounds to me like they can't deal with their own medicine.

Sometimes when I read this stuff, I'm glad I practice solo most of the time ... No kidding. I've got enough battles going on throughout the day, I don't need them in the pool as well.

I don't understand why people get so irritated/judgmental over equipment use. We're all adults. And we do all have different goals, agendas, meet focuses, injury issues, etc. Can't we live and let live? Sometimes when I read this stuff, I'm glad I practice solo most of the time ... Very true Leslie. It's masters which is why I stated that "anything goes" short of mooning your teammate (which now that I think about it, could be fun) and diving in on their head. And speaking of mooning and anything goes, I will never forget the time when one of my male masters teammates pushed me in with both his hands via my butt! I opted to not be irritated or judgmental! Who's going to place judgment on a Kona #1 age group finisher? I can say that I've seen swimmers don equipment and then draft the entire practice off the lane leader. So I think that's where people may get a bit annoyed as it certainly affects their workout. And when you look to the coach, they shrug their shoulders. . . I do, however, still feel a tiny bit sorry for the hard lesson that a newbie or tri swimmer may learn (Can'tWait4Bike will be itching to go to his bike after this thread) after they have worked so hard to learn the basics and then they come into masters to see everyone swimming with paddles and fins. I can see the shock registering on their face as they realize that now they are very slow compared to the rest of the group and they need to learn to swim with paddles ASAP. Don't know about others but it took me quite a while to learn how to swim fast with paddles. Still have yet to learn to swim with fins! ;)

I get annoyed when we're doing non-free sets, the coach gives an appropriate interval for the set, but there's 1-2 swimmers who decide to do free and adjust the intervals on their own. My choices are usually-- * move to a slower lane that is usually way too slow, that I'm nearly lapping those swimmers * stay in my current lane, and struggle with the shorter intervals * stay in my current lane, and do the intervals assigned...which will cause problems eventually Now I don't mind if someone wants to do free instead of stroke, but move to an appropriate lane for it. I'm not a fast swimmer; I can do sets of 200 SCY free on 3 min easily, with 30 sec rest. Change that to stroke, and I'm struggling. Which is why the coach will usually give us 3:30 for a non-free set. We've had cases where some feel that since they're the first in the lane for the day that others should move, not them. We've had cases where people go in 'their' lane regardless of how many others are already in that lane. A lane could have 6 people, while those on either side have 2-3. We have some people who know they'll be doing the sprint set (on one side of the pool), yet get in the fastest lane for warm-up anyway, and have to cross over 4 lanes once warm-up is complete. We have some people who used to be fast, but haven't worked out for a few months, come back and get in the same lane they used to swim in. As someone else said, I swim mostly to reduce stress in my life, not create more from it. I'll usually go with the flow. If others are doing free for a 200, I may do a combination of 100 fr/100 non so I can still make their intervals, or make other adjustments to make things work. If I've been away or am feeling rusty, I'll move to a slower lane. Occasionally, I'll move to a faster lane, especially if few fast folks show up one day. Of course when doing longer swims (500+), we'll have lapping. A few weeks ago we had 5-6 people in a lane for a timed mile...I think I lapped one gal every 250, but she was excellent with pulling to the side at a wall when I got remotely close. Overall, the benefits of swimming with the team outweigh the negatives.

Man, there's a lot of testiness out there. Why can't we each show up and follow our bliss while generally sticking to the workout the coach gives? Maybe I'm obtuse, but we don't seem to have these problems where I swim. People seem to self-organize into the right lanes, do what the coach says and, if they make modifications, coordinate with their lane mates.

Man, there's a lot of testiness out there. Why can't we each show up and follow our bliss while generally sticking to the workout the coach gives? Maybe I'm obtuse, but we don't seem to have these problems where I swim. People seem to self-organize into the right lanes, do what the coach says and, if they make modifications, coordinate with their lane mates. patrick, I love ya man but let me clarify a few things: 1) you are always in the fast lane 2) you are always going 1st in that lane 3) people are afraid of you and stay out of your way (to be fair folks PW is a great guy...other than that Texas Longhorn thing) The reality was VERY evident today at Cactus where the switch was made to LC and the masters only had 3 lanes....which meant 8-10 swimmers per lane. Lane 6 (Patricks) was very orderly...he led, everyone else followed. People made room for swimmers coming in behind him, there was minimal gear abuse and no on got near anyones feet Lane 7 is the "interesting" lane as a lot of folks who could have been in Patricks lane went here to "cruise" and others who should have been in lane 8 were using wetsuits, pull gear, fins...and every other possible thing they could find to "hang" with the lane...an all out yelling match actually took place when the coach took one guys paddles away and refused to give them back. Lane 8 has some of the nicest people...and usually ould be orderly because they would have 2-3 lanes instead of one...so there was overflow from Lane 7...and me. In spite of my best efforts to explain some basic lane etiqutte (leave 10 apart, move over for swimmers coming in, go first if you want to wear fins on everything)...it was all ignord and we had absolute carnage...which is exactly why I was there having fun!!