Normal Swimming Protocol?

I recently started coaching some practices at a masters program where the coach writes a practice on a wipe-off board and then heads off to sit down or chat with someone on deck. :( Intervals and rest between sets are a free for all in each lane. Survival of the fittest and the strongest swimmer often decides the rest. The first day I coached, I swear swimmers were jumping out of their skin when I called out their times and eyes were opened wide to hear a stroke correction. But the best of all, was the subtle look of gratitude that came from swimmers in the back of the lanes. For organization of the lanes. They could actually make the send off for the presented set - and understood how to swim it correctly. The coach on the deck drives everything in the practice. Thats' not to say there is no flexibility, but masters swimmers need a conductor. A word or two about a little extra rest, a higher quality swim - or a bit less rest knowing there is a break at the end of the set can keep a lane pretty harmonious. Ande and Paul made some pretty good comments in regard to coaching not long ago that can apply here. #1 Swimmer - ASK the coach questions #2 Coach - get very active and involved in the practice I would venture to say that we loose many swimmers from masters because of perceived rudeness and lack of attention to varied needs in the lanes. Personally, I really dislike watching swimmers struggle with lane disorganization when I am on deck. And I can almost feel a swimmer's future pain when I watch poor technique. I figure besides being a lifeguard for the practice sometimes, this is the reason they pay me to be on deck.

I get annoyed when we're doing non-free sets, the coach gives an appropriate interval for the set, but there's 1-2 swimmers who decide to do free and adjust the intervals on their own. I frequently do this but when I do, I make sure that my lanemates know I am swimming free (and I move to lead the lane) and I also pick up the pace by swimming a pace much closer to a sprint and just deal witht he extra rest. Swimming free on stroke sets and decreasing the interval and affecting the whole lane is just something that I would never consider doing. I'm the one who's going off the page, so I'm the one who should have to adjust. Not the whole lane. That's just completely selfish behavoir.

i recently started coaching some practices at a masters program where the coach writes a practice on a wipe-off board and then heads off to sit down or chat with someone on deck. :( aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

...it was all ignord and we had absolute carnage...which is exactly why I was there having fun!! ... so I missed all of the fun! I do, though, agree with the fundamental point that things get a lot more interesting the more crowded the lanes. I dunno about that. I admit always being part of the fastest lane, but self-regulation with lane mates seems to work pretty well everywhere I've worked out ... In every time while traveling, no one knew me or what speed I might be. I knew nobody there, or how fast they might be, but in each case things sorted out just fine quite quickly. I, too, have found this. I've worked out with a number of teams over the last 6 to 9 months while traveling and have not had problems. People are welcoming and it seems pretty quick to figure out the lane order. ... The coach on the deck drives everything in the practice. Thats' not to say there is no flexibility, but masters swimmers need a conductor. ... I do agree with that wholeheartedly ... maybe part of the reason my "traveling" workout experiences have also been so good is that I've tried to pick strong masters' teams/strong coaches to train with.

Man, there's a lot of testiness out there. Why can't we each show up and follow our bliss while generally sticking to the workout the coach gives? Maybe I'm obtuse, but we don't seem to have these problems where I swim. People seem to self-organize into the right lanes, do what the coach says and, if they make modifications, coordinate with their lane mates. No, not obtuse. Just fast enough to not have to deal with anything. I'd be in la la land as well if I had your times.

it was all ignord and we had absolute carnage...which is exactly why I was there having fun!! LOL! :applaud: I'm so there! I really need to make out that way. I agree, for all the banter this kind of thing can be terribly delicious!

I'd be in la la land as well if I had your times. I dunno about that. I admit always being part of the fastest lane, but self-regulation with lane mates seems to work pretty well everywhere I've worked out. Although I only started last May after a 14 year break, I have worked out with masters teams this year at: South Bay Hawthorne, CA Menlo Park CA SCAQ -Santa Monica College SCAQ - Loyola Marymount SCAQ -Century City SCAQ - Echo Park Conroe School, Woodland, TX JJ Pearce, Dallas, Texas SMU - Dallas TX. Woodhead Pool -Riverside, CA Las Vegas Masters - Henderson, NV In every time while traveling, no one knew me or what speed I might be. I knew nobody there, or how fast they might be, but in each case things sorted out just fine quite quickly.

I just have to wonder why Person #5 cannot be the fin police yet persons #1-4 can be the speed police. Are #1-4 not messing up the #5 person's workout? Why would fins be accepted and missing the interval not be accepted? Because one of the assumptions I stated was that another lane is available that is not too crowded already and in which Person #5 would fit in better speed-wise. If another lane isn't open--if all the other lanes are already overcrowded, or if Person #5 would be just as out-of-sync with them (or more so) as with Persons #1 to #4--then Persons #1 to #5 need to work together to figure out some compromise so that everybody can get at least a decent workout under imperfect conditions. The other thing to think about is that in addition to Person #5 in my scenario there may also be a Person #4.5--someone who would be better able than Person #5 to hang with Persons #1 to #4, but who doesn't really want to be Person #6 in the lane in a 25-yard pool. I was a Person #4.5 on my team for a while and it pissed me off, which may be why I have so much to say on this topic. I don't know if cantwait4bike is Person #5 or Person #4.5 or even Person #4, because his original post focused on fins and triathletes rather than on speed and available lanes. I think that fins and triathletes are red herrings, and what I take away from this thread is that most others agree.

Osterber, Thanks for all the responses including the "it depends." I think that for the several questions I had on different scenarios, I could list 30 more situations. The point is how on earth is a newer swimmer to know what is appropriate or not? Even with years of swimming practices under my belt, it's not always clear cut as to what is appropriate or *best* for yourself and the others in your lane. Actually, let me change that last statement and say it's often very clear what would be best for me. One funny situation that comes to mind is when the entire lane misses the intervals. And yes, the coach did have a purpose for that. Just the other day I was told by my coach to "be more aggressive and run them over." Given the situation which I will not get into, I would agree with him. Now how does this fit into the desired kumbaya goal that we masters at least say we want to strive for? What I see in practices is people looking out for #1 (and I don't have a problem with this as it's called life and competition), whether it be via putting on equipment to be faster or to cover up a stroke flaw or get through an injury; rest a repeat; get out early; get in late; draft; just swim free; just swim stroke; do their own set; etc. I find it confusing when in the same breath those swimmers tell other swimmers to follow other rules like this lane may be too fast for you if you are lapped once in a set. Just seems almost humorous to me . . . Ourswimmer, I too have been swimmer 1 through 5 on various occasions. I hear you. If you're making the interval, then you at least have an argument to stay. IMHO, whether you should move or not may depend on some other details. For example, if it's a set of 20 x 100, and there are lanes going on 1:10, 1:15, 1:20, etc. The 1:10 lane has 5 people in it who are going 1:02-ish on each swim. The 1:15 lane has 2 people in it. If you're at the speed where you'd be going 1:09's in the 1:10 lane and touch-and-go on each one, or you could lead the 1:15 lane and make it by more, and perhaps go faster. You'd be the 6th person in the 1:10 lane or the 3rd person in the 1:15 lane. If it were me, I'd jump in the 1:15 lane and lead. You'd have an argument to stay in the 1:10 lane (since you're making the set)... but you're probably getting in the way of the others. On the other hand, if you'd be the 4th person in the 1:10 lane, and going at the back of the lane gives you some drag and allows you to keep up... by all means! If you're missing the interval, then you're in the wrong lane. To take the same set example... if you're swimming 1:09, 1:09, 1:09, 1:11, then you're in the wrong lane and you should move down. However, if you're doing the 20 x 100 on 1:10, and holding 1:05's most of the way, tighten up near the end and swim 1:08's and 1:09's on #17, 18, 19, and crash and burn and miss on the last one... then I think you're just fine. You took a shot at the faster interval, kept up with the lane for the vast majority of the set, and ran out of gas at the end. That happens! May depend on the specific scenarios. If this is the fastest lane, then there is sometimes the problem with a lane leader who is "too fast", i.e,. would move up to a faster lane if there were one. If you're making the interval, then I think you're probably fine. Especially if you're making the interval to the same degree as everyone else in the lane. It comes down to some mutual etiquette for both you and the fast lane leader to try to stay out of each other's way as best you can. I.e,. don't make it hard for the lane leader to pass you... but for example when the lane leader finishes, he/she needs to make sure they move to the side so you can flip and finish up your repeat. You're both in the right lane. Sounds like you're probably still in the right lane. Depends. Some of this will depend on your history with your lane-mates. To some extent, there is a need to build up "lane credibility". If you've been in the lane for a long time (like months or years, etc.), and everyone knows that you can cut it... but you have a lousy day, or didn't get enough sleep, or your shoulder hurts... then you'll be fine. If you're trying to break into a new lane as the newbie, and nobody knows you... then sitting out in order to keep up won't earn a lot of respect from others in the lane. -Rick

I actually had someone in my lane recently who was too slow to be there. I only got annoyed when he pushed off right in front of me (and this was LC and I was lapping him). But in retrospect, if he wants to stay there even after being almost run over when I passed him, good for him (and for me - great OW practice.) So. . . I say anything goes. That's one way of dealing with the over-inflated egos who swim in a specific (public swims, not team or Masters) lane only because this lane is marked as the fast lane (even though the other lanes—to flatter egos, I guess— are medium fast and medium. There's no slow lane. The trick when overtaking them is cutting in in front of them (and even if you're really only doing arm pulls) flutter-kick furiously right under their nose (literally). When this is repeated a few times, most of them get the message and move down.