i swim in the medium to slower lanes at a very competitive masters team workouts in san diego, and am usually asked to slide down to slower lanes when the equal ability swimmers (vs triathletes) show up.
the funny thing is most of these swimmers use a pull bouy or fins for the WHOLE workout. i think it's a ego thing in la-la land.
i would like to swim with people who can push me harder, instead of down in the last slowest lane. should i just chalk it up to normal swimmers protocal? or find another team? :confused:
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Ourswimmer, I think you bring up some really interesting points. And for the most part, at least in theory, I agree. As to what actually happens and how things play out. . . that's another story.
Well, no. If four other people in the lane are doing a set of 100s on (say) a 1:15 per 100 interval, and Person #5 can't repeat them on faster than 1:25, Person #5 needs to move to another lane if one is available, even if Person #5 knows that Persons #2 and #3 couldn't make 1:25 either if they took off their fins. Person #5 is not the fin police.
I just have to wonder why Person #5 cannot be the fin police yet persons #1-4 can be the speed police. Are #1-4 not messing up the #5 person's workout? Why would fins be accepted and missing the interval not be accepted? In my opinion, fins can be very challenging to swim around/ with due to all of the excess wake created just as swimming around someone you are lapping can be challenging. Or are we just going on majority rules in this scenario? That makes sense to me but then what if you have an even 3 to 3 split of fins vs. interval and no extra lanes?
But if charm and coaching fail then Person #5, not the fin-wearers, is out of sync and is being rude if s/he insists on staying and getting lapped halfway through the set.
I'm really feeling for poor little #5er right about now. He's in a lane where everyone has fins and is creating a lot of wake and turbulence and he's only been lapped once or twice at most by the completion of the set. I've been on both sides of this situation (lapping and being lapped) and as the person doing the lapping I don't find it any more inconvenient to lap someone once in a set than to swim in a lane with a bunch of finners all of whom I can actually outswim or keep up with; however, it's like swimming in a washing machine during spin cycle at best. Why do the finners get priority over someone a bit slower?
And what if you are in a lane where you can perform 80 to 90% of the set at interval but because of varying intervals within the set, you fail to make the other 10 to 20% and end up being lapped in that portion of the set? I think that's pretty accepted across the board as being appropriate to stay in that lane. So why not be able to be lapped once or twice in the other scenario?
I think you are just describing a difference in coaching style, between the age-group coach who is very bossy and the masters coach who is maybe not bossy enough.
Agreed. Coach sets the tone directly and indirectly (by not saying anything re: culturally unacceptable behaviors).
But really, those of us who go to masters-only workouts are not just farting around.
Not sure what compelled you to state this or what it has to do with the conversation. Uh yeah. I've had some masters swimmers die two lanes down from me when swimming @ practice.
So I don't think your description is the "norm" at all.
In my personal experience it's the norm as these behaviors are what occur at my practices, not occasionally, but daily. And in retrospect, it's dang fascinating to watch scenarios play out. I'm never bored.
All this being said, I think if anyone wants to try and hang with a lane that's fast for them, that they should go for it. I don't see how this is any different than someone throwing on paddles or fins or a wet suit. If they end up being lapped too frequently, they'll move on their own. I guess this is not a popular view, but I know I for one will be much more welcoming of swimmers who want to give it a try. If the kids can welcome me, an old fart, who wants to try to swim in a super fast lane (and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail), then I can sure return the favor to others.
Ourswimmer, I think you bring up some really interesting points. And for the most part, at least in theory, I agree. As to what actually happens and how things play out. . . that's another story.
Well, no. If four other people in the lane are doing a set of 100s on (say) a 1:15 per 100 interval, and Person #5 can't repeat them on faster than 1:25, Person #5 needs to move to another lane if one is available, even if Person #5 knows that Persons #2 and #3 couldn't make 1:25 either if they took off their fins. Person #5 is not the fin police.
I just have to wonder why Person #5 cannot be the fin police yet persons #1-4 can be the speed police. Are #1-4 not messing up the #5 person's workout? Why would fins be accepted and missing the interval not be accepted? In my opinion, fins can be very challenging to swim around/ with due to all of the excess wake created just as swimming around someone you are lapping can be challenging. Or are we just going on majority rules in this scenario? That makes sense to me but then what if you have an even 3 to 3 split of fins vs. interval and no extra lanes?
But if charm and coaching fail then Person #5, not the fin-wearers, is out of sync and is being rude if s/he insists on staying and getting lapped halfway through the set.
I'm really feeling for poor little #5er right about now. He's in a lane where everyone has fins and is creating a lot of wake and turbulence and he's only been lapped once or twice at most by the completion of the set. I've been on both sides of this situation (lapping and being lapped) and as the person doing the lapping I don't find it any more inconvenient to lap someone once in a set than to swim in a lane with a bunch of finners all of whom I can actually outswim or keep up with; however, it's like swimming in a washing machine during spin cycle at best. Why do the finners get priority over someone a bit slower?
And what if you are in a lane where you can perform 80 to 90% of the set at interval but because of varying intervals within the set, you fail to make the other 10 to 20% and end up being lapped in that portion of the set? I think that's pretty accepted across the board as being appropriate to stay in that lane. So why not be able to be lapped once or twice in the other scenario?
I think you are just describing a difference in coaching style, between the age-group coach who is very bossy and the masters coach who is maybe not bossy enough.
Agreed. Coach sets the tone directly and indirectly (by not saying anything re: culturally unacceptable behaviors).
But really, those of us who go to masters-only workouts are not just farting around.
Not sure what compelled you to state this or what it has to do with the conversation. Uh yeah. I've had some masters swimmers die two lanes down from me when swimming @ practice.
So I don't think your description is the "norm" at all.
In my personal experience it's the norm as these behaviors are what occur at my practices, not occasionally, but daily. And in retrospect, it's dang fascinating to watch scenarios play out. I'm never bored.
All this being said, I think if anyone wants to try and hang with a lane that's fast for them, that they should go for it. I don't see how this is any different than someone throwing on paddles or fins or a wet suit. If they end up being lapped too frequently, they'll move on their own. I guess this is not a popular view, but I know I for one will be much more welcoming of swimmers who want to give it a try. If the kids can welcome me, an old fart, who wants to try to swim in a super fast lane (and sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail), then I can sure return the favor to others.
