Men's NCAAs 2009

So would you support a college team that was made up 100% of foreign swimmers? This is not about Auburn...this is not about protectionism...this is taking a hard look at how we best support US swimming interests within the college system. Does it make any sense a all to have some type of structure in place that limits the numbers of these athletes on a college team? I will support my college team no matter what. Yes, this is about Auburn (this time); you brought it up. Speaking to limits of how many foreign athletes can be on a college team -let's see...looks like the majic number is four. So, four. Right now, I really don't see where having foreign athletes on college teams is a big problem; unless your team has none, and they lose.

Ironic that Texas's coach helped put the Auburn program on the map in the 70's prior to Richard Quick.

Just thought it was interesting that he coached there, then Richard, then Marsh, then Richard. Somewhat of an incestuous and small world. I'm so sorry I offended you with my side comment Fortress.............. NOT !

Wow, this REALLY makes you sound like you're just pissed off that Texas didn't win. Is that all this whole post is really about? Yes.

I wonder, did Paul and Mr. Negative complain this much and this loudly win Arizona won the ncaa title last year? I counted 8 guys on the Arizona team that won last year that are FOREIGNERS. Seems a bit two faced to me. Why is it each time Auburn wins, Paul gripes about them winning? Yet, Arizona wins using more non-americans than Auburn did this year, yet he and others did belly ache about that win. Seems a bit two-faced. Louder actually. Don't confuse my efforts to try and save ASU's swimming program which I have been very active in even though at one time they probably had 75% of their swimmers from foreign countries. I have always advocated supporting the growth and excellence of US swimming...what's your problem? America hater?

Not really. They got the scholarship because they swim fast. Points aren't awarded at swim meets on the basis of who worked the hardest in practice. I know. I was venting.

It seems your cause would be better served, Mr. Negative, by pursuing rule changes rather than complaining on this message board. The rules don't disallow foreign swimmers at this time. If you feel so strongly, you should do something proactive and do what you can to change the rules. I agree that no student (U.S. citizen or otherwise) should be competing for any team when they are only taking online classes from afar. But, again, if the rules allow for that, the rules are what needs changing. Why is it that John Leonard and other U.S. coaches aren't pushing for these rule changes? These rules have presumably been on the books for years, why hasn't anyone been compelled to make changes in the past?

That is simply a crock of crap. Fact is the SAME talent swims in both arenas (USA Swimming and NCAA). Your border between the two worlds is nothing but adminstrative. The talent moves freely between both bodies and the personal goals and coaches are the same between each body. One is not exclusive of the other. To assume that colleges have no roll or involvement in developing talent that goes to the Games or competes internationally is truely naive. I didn't say they weren't involved or that they had no role. I said it wasn't their purpose; it is simply an unintended by-product as they go about their business. Please find me a university mission statement that says anything about developing Olympians -- specifically the US variety -- and I'll gladly concede the point. In fact if you search through such statements (and unfortunately I've had to be present at meetings when they were crafted), you are much more likely to find concerns about helping students deal with a variety of cultures and values. You most certainly won't find jingoistic sentiments. Chris...I think I have said this 3 times now...there is a coalition of the 3 major organizers of swimming in this country who are starting to work together...I think its a good thing. I also think anyone who actually competes in swimming and is a US citizen pretty much agress the pinnacle in our sport is the Olympics and anything the various agencies can do to help support each other in winning more gold medals the better. Regarding your question as to "why should a university feel obligated to do their job" I have say that seems pretty naive. I don't think there is a University in existence that has had an Olympian of pro athlete attend that doesn't use that as a recruiting tool to students and athletes alike. I'll also leave you with this quotes from NCAA President Myles Brand which was in the same ASCA article I have referenced: " The job of the University is to take teenagers and turn them into people" " ten years from now, do you suppose the student will remember his calculus? or will she remember instead, the lessons learned in her sports participation? " it's ok, it's good,, for the University to support finacially, it's athletic department...we don't realistically expect the athletic departments to self-fund....sports sponsorship on a wide range of experiences for college students is an acceptable part of the university mission because Athletics is in fact, part and parcel of the educational experiance. It's where many lessons are learned in life." Believe me, Paul, I am VERY familiar with the many ways in which a university sells itself to prospective students. I am involved in the process. Except for perhaps the very biggest names, former Olympians rank very far down the list for non-athletes prospectives. It also doesn't generally get the university much money from deep pockets, funding agencies and the like. Some donors probably like having a lot of ex-pro athletes as alums in the major revenue sports. And of course having ex-Olympians will help attract prospective students who participate in that sport. But like Erik says, an Olympian is an Olympian, US or not. Universities and athletic teams will trumpet the fact either way. I do remember your discussion about this alliance. I think it is great, but I'll be frankly surprised if they get universities to agree on a cap for athletic scholarships to non-US citizens unless the universities get something substantial out of it. For example: if your coalition was willing to pony up some real money, endow a large number of swimming scholarships at some of the major swimming schools, and specify that they were to be used for US citizens, then MAYBE you can gain some real traction. I actually think that is perhaps their best bet. Sure, it can get expensive...but much much cheaper than doing it all themselves. After all, the universities would still pay for all the coaches, facilities, trainers, etc. But if they are basically saying, "you should do it b/c it is your patriotic duty"...well. I won't be holding my breath.

Perhaps a better question is, would I be comfortable sending my son to swim for a team consisting largely of foreign athletes? Assuming a good fit otherwise with the coach, program and school, my answer is: absolutely! He would learn a lot. Good question. Say there's a hypothetical American kid deciding where to go to school and swim. He is 6'4 and growing with dinner-plate hands, and is thought to have potential to be a world-class sprinter. He, his parents, club coaches, and USA Swimming have an interest in optimizing his ability. He has a chance to train at a not-so-hypothetical university program with a (non-US) sprint coach who has produced recent olympic medalists and finalists, and some of those olympians are currently on the team or have recently left/graduated but are still training with said coach (or at least maintain close ties). Still others in the program are on national teams for other (lesser) swimming powerhouse countries, also bringing unique training and racing experiences. How is this not a good scenario for the hypothetical American kid and for USA swimming? Seems a good way to optimize his potential. Not to say he couldn't be great elsewhere, but if it were my kid it would seem pretty sweet, even if it meant a partial, rather than a full ride.

our country is better than your country because we can produce more olympic swimming gold medals??????? seems like an argument that should be taking place in the school yard between (immature) third graders. DB you are so full of it! So tell all of us with a straight face you cheered for the French 400 free relay last summer and the South Africans 4 years ago! Give me a friggin break! No one hear has remotely gone down the path of "ours is bigger than yours"...that's you and you alone my friend. What (I hope) some of us are trying to better understand is how to make US Swimming on ALL levels more successful...some of us fully believe that college swimming has a major impact on the development of future US Olympians and we should be supporting that any way we can...