Men's NCAAs 2009

That is simply a crock of crap. Fact is the SAME talent swims in both arenas (USA Swimming and NCAA). Your border between the two worlds is nothing but adminstrative. The talent moves freely between both bodies and the personal goals and coaches are the same between each body. One is not exclusive of the other. To assume that colleges have no roll or involvement in developing talent that goes to the Games or competes internationally is truely naive. I didn't say they weren't involved or that they had no role. I said it wasn't their purpose; it is simply an unintended by-product as they go about their business. Please find me a university mission statement that says anything about developing Olympians -- specifically the US variety -- and I'll gladly concede the point. In fact if you search through such statements (and unfortunately I've had to be present at meetings when they were crafted), you are much more likely to find concerns about helping students deal with a variety of cultures and values. You most certainly won't find jingoistic sentiments. Chris...I think I have said this 3 times now...there is a coalition of the 3 major organizers of swimming in this country who are starting to work together...I think its a good thing. I also think anyone who actually competes in swimming and is a US citizen pretty much agress the pinnacle in our sport is the Olympics and anything the various agencies can do to help support each other in winning more gold medals the better. Regarding your question as to "why should a university feel obligated to do their job" I have say that seems pretty naive. I don't think there is a University in existence that has had an Olympian of pro athlete attend that doesn't use that as a recruiting tool to students and athletes alike. I'll also leave you with this quotes from NCAA President Myles Brand which was in the same ASCA article I have referenced: " The job of the University is to take teenagers and turn them into people" " ten years from now, do you suppose the student will remember his calculus? or will she remember instead, the lessons learned in her sports participation? " it's ok, it's good,, for the University to support finacially, it's athletic department...we don't realistically expect the athletic departments to self-fund....sports sponsorship on a wide range of experiences for college students is an acceptable part of the university mission because Athletics is in fact, part and parcel of the educational experiance. It's where many lessons are learned in life." Believe me, Paul, I am VERY familiar with the many ways in which a university sells itself to prospective students. I am involved in the process. Except for perhaps the very biggest names, former Olympians rank very far down the list for non-athletes prospectives. It also doesn't generally get the university much money from deep pockets, funding agencies and the like. Some donors probably like having a lot of ex-pro athletes as alums in the major revenue sports. And of course having ex-Olympians will help attract prospective students who participate in that sport. But like Erik says, an Olympian is an Olympian, US or not. Universities and athletic teams will trumpet the fact either way. I do remember your discussion about this alliance. I think it is great, but I'll be frankly surprised if they get universities to agree on a cap for athletic scholarships to non-US citizens unless the universities get something substantial out of it. For example: if your coalition was willing to pony up some real money, endow a large number of swimming scholarships at some of the major swimming schools, and specify that they were to be used for US citizens, then MAYBE you can gain some real traction. I actually think that is perhaps their best bet. Sure, it can get expensive...but much much cheaper than doing it all themselves. After all, the universities would still pay for all the coaches, facilities, trainers, etc. But if they are basically saying, "you should do it b/c it is your patriotic duty"...well. I won't be holding my breath.

That is simply a crock of crap. Fact is the SAME talent swims in both arenas (USA Swimming and NCAA). Your border between the two worlds is nothing but adminstrative. The talent moves freely between both bodies and the personal goals and coaches are the same between each body. One is not exclusive of the other. To assume that colleges have no roll or involvement in developing talent that goes to the Games or competes internationally is truely naive. I didn't say they weren't involved or that they had no role. I said it wasn't their purpose; it is simply an unintended by-product as they go about their business. Please find me a university mission statement that says anything about developing Olympians -- specifically the US variety -- and I'll gladly concede the point. In fact if you search through such statements (and unfortunately I've had to be present at meetings when they were crafted), you are much more likely to find concerns about helping students deal with a variety of cultures and values. You most certainly won't find jingoistic sentiments. Chris...I think I have said this 3 times now...there is a coalition of the 3 major organizers of swimming in this country who are starting to work together...I think its a good thing. I also think anyone who actually competes in swimming and is a US citizen pretty much agress the pinnacle in our sport is the Olympics and anything the various agencies can do to help support each other in winning more gold medals the better. Regarding your question as to "why should a university feel obligated to do their job" I have say that seems pretty naive. I don't think there is a University in existence that has had an Olympian of pro athlete attend that doesn't use that as a recruiting tool to students and athletes alike. I'll also leave you with this quotes from NCAA President Myles Brand which was in the same ASCA article I have referenced: " The job of the University is to take teenagers and turn them into people" " ten years from now, do you suppose the student will remember his calculus? or will she remember instead, the lessons learned in her sports participation? " it's ok, it's good,, for the University to support finacially, it's athletic department...we don't realistically expect the athletic departments to self-fund....sports sponsorship on a wide range of experiences for college students is an acceptable part of the university mission because Athletics is in fact, part and parcel of the educational experiance. It's where many lessons are learned in life." Believe me, Paul, I am VERY familiar with the many ways in which a university sells itself to prospective students. I am involved in the process. Except for perhaps the very biggest names, former Olympians rank very far down the list for non-athletes prospectives. It also doesn't generally get the university much money from deep pockets, funding agencies and the like. Some donors probably like having a lot of ex-pro athletes as alums in the major revenue sports. And of course having ex-Olympians will help attract prospective students who participate in that sport. But like Erik says, an Olympian is an Olympian, US or not. Universities and athletic teams will trumpet the fact either way. I do remember your discussion about this alliance. I think it is great, but I'll be frankly surprised if they get universities to agree on a cap for athletic scholarships to non-US citizens unless the universities get something substantial out of it. For example: if your coalition was willing to pony up some real money, endow a large number of swimming scholarships at some of the major swimming schools, and specify that they were to be used for US citizens, then MAYBE you can gain some real traction. I actually think that is perhaps their best bet. Sure, it can get expensive...but much much cheaper than doing it all themselves. After all, the universities would still pay for all the coaches, facilities, trainers, etc. But if they are basically saying, "you should do it b/c it is your patriotic duty"...well. I won't be holding my breath.