How many guys from other countries does it take to win a National Championship?
Good thing they all attended classes on campus the entire year..... :-)
Makes everyone feel proud to see the American Record holder on the 4th place podium.
Where you draw the line depends on where it "doesn't matter".... or do you even have a line? Perhaps an entire team of very talented kids from other countries would be acceptable?
I draw the line where the rulebook does. I'm pretty sure an all-foreign team isn't against the rules.
Perhaps a better question is, would I be comfortable sending my son to swim for a team consisting largely of foreign athletes? Assuming a good fit otherwise with the coach, program and school, my answer is: absolutely! He would learn a lot.
...don't kid yourself. The foreign swimmers on the Auburn team aren't being recruited to blend cultural and ethnic diversity on campus. That's a joke. They are there for their exceptional talent, the coach's failure to recruit enough talent in those events in the US, and to win the NCAA Team Championships.
Hmmm. Who is being more naive: me for believing that increased diversity has educational value, regardless of the motives for bringing the student here? Or you for believing that coaches who recruit domestically do so because their hearts are pure and they sleep in a red, white and blue bedspread?
And again I contend that it is more expensive and often riskier to recruit foreign athletes than those in the US. Riskier because there is usually a much greater change in cultural and training environment that the foreign athlete has to contend with. Getting away from what is familiar -- and what led to prior success in the pool -- doesn't always work out as well.
Preach - when you consider that Texans like to continuously spew about how they are truly a sovereign nation, then, by default, anyone from outside the state is a foreigner. This could potentially make them the biggest hypocrites of them all.
I lived in small-town Texas through high school and college and have certainly heard some of that as a Michigan native, but it seems to have lessened greatly since the late 70s. Austin generally is the most enlightened part of Texas and comparable to any college town that I know of. I think most of Texas' swimmers/coaches/parents/fans probably come from other parts of the country too.
I think the more overriding trait is that the Longhorns hate to lose and feel like they should win everything given all their financial support to athletics and general feeling of superiority. Texas just needs to try harder and I am sure they will.
Does anyone else find it offensive that all their swimmers have to flash the Longhorn sign when they get introduced? Can't they just waive like everyone else? They are still better than the Aggies though!
Tim
Does anyone else find it offensive that all their swimmers have to flash the Longhorn sign when they get introduced?
It could be worse, imagine what would happen if Tennessee became a swimming powerhouse. The sheer hell of listening to Rocky Top after every event would make everyone crazy.
I've wondered about the longhorn sign myself but I've given into it. After all, I know there are adult males in their 40s who get that mangy heifer tattooed on their body.
It could be worse, imagine what would happen if Tennessee became a swimming powerhouse. The sheer hell of listening to Rocky Top after every event would make everyone crazy.
I've wondered about the longhorn sign myself but I've given into it. After all, I know there are adult males in their 40s who get that mangy heifer tattooed on their body.
Now I can't get Rocky Top out of my head. That BCS championship game that they won a decade ago was enough for me.
The longhorn tattoos are beyond explanation. A mangy range cow with oversized horns that was largely driven to northern slaughter houses as a mascot choice? I don't get it. However, it is better than Yosemite Sam which is largely my school's mascot. Don't even get me started on the Aggies and their yell leaders. Texas is a strange and wonderful place.
Tim
The money goes to university student-athletes, as expected. The anticipated return is good performances while competing for the university.
The particular "student-athlete" is where we obviously disagree.
The rest doesn't matter in the least. Donors want teams to win, the others expect a good educational environment.
Where you draw the line depends on where it "doesn't matter".... or do you even have a line? Perhaps an entire team of very talented kids from other countries would be acceptable?
Besides once having been a scholarship swimmer, I work at a university; cultural and ethnic diversity is prized on college campuses and serves the students well.
True, but don't kid yourself. The foreign swimmers on the Auburn team aren't being recruited to blend cultural and ethnic diversity on campus. That's a joke. They are there for their exceptional talent, the coach's failure to recruit enough talent in those events in the US, and to win the NCAA Team Championships.
The math is very simple
Team rosters are limited
Capping the number of foreign swimmers on a college team = more US swimmers on that team = more possibilites to develop potential Olympic swimmers for the US.
An example is Texas bringing in Agustin Magruder...one of those talented but undeveloped US high schoolers who probably would have never gotten a shot at a top tier team if someone was looking for a "quick fix". The kid takes 12th in the 100 *** and 10th in the 200 as a 5th year senior.
Lazy / Low Risk recruiting. That's what it comes down to. Grab your prepackaged top level international talent and sign here.
I suppose UT goes out of its way to grab the "unpackaged" lower level talent here in the U.S.? What's the difference between grabbing the "prepackaged top level talent" here in the U.S. and doing the same internationally--what makes one "lazy" and immoral?
I get the point that you're pissed Texas lost. I get it that you think the U.S. should exclusively benefit from any good performance by a swimmer training here. I understand that you want more spots for U.S. men on top level college teams. What I DO NOT understand is where you come off calling the legal (and logically very strategic) practice of international recruiting by college coaches lazy or immoral. You don't like it. Fine. That doesn't make the practice inherently wrong. Make the practice against the rules and THEN you can claim someone is cheating. Until then, your arguments are very weak.
The math is very simple
Team rosters are limited
Capping the number of foreign swimmers on a college team = more US swimmers on that team = more possibilites to develop potential Olympic swimmers for the US.
Yes, very simple...but colleges are simply not in the business of developing US Olympic talent. That's the USAS's/USOC's job.
Why should a university feel obliged to do their job for them? What is in it for them, other than the mushy feel-good stuff that Mr Neg is talking about?
Give a convincing answer to that to the NCAA, ADs, and university presidents and you may get the cap that you desire.
Being an educator myself, and perhaps foolishly believing that to be the main business of universities, I would love it if the argument were put in those terms.
My cynical side says that any argument that persuasively shows a benefit to the bottom line will work too.
Yes, very simple...but colleges are simply not in the business of developing US Olympic talent. That's the USAS's/USOC's job.
Why should a university feel obliged to do their job for them? What is in it for them, other than the mushy feel-good stuff that Mr Neg is talking about?
Give a convincing answer to that to the NCAA, ADs, and university presidents and you may get the cap that you desire.
Being an educator myself, and perhaps foolishly believing that to be the main business of universities, I would love it if the argument were put in those terms.
My cynical side says that any argument that persuasively shows a benefit to the bottom line will work too.
Chris...I think I have said this 3 times now...there is a coalition of the 3 major organizers of swimming in this country who are starting to work together...I think its a good thing. I also think anyone who actually competes in swimming and is a US citizen pretty much agress the pinnacle in our sport is the Olympics and anything the various agencies can do to help support each other in winning more gold medals the better.
Regarding your question as to "why should a university feel obligated to do their job" I have say that seems pretty naive. I don't think there is a University in existence that has had an Olympian of pro athlete attend that doesn't use that as a recruiting tool to students and athletes alike. I'll also leave you with this quotes from NCAA President Myles Brand which was in the same ASCA article I have referenced:
" The job of the University is to take teenagers and turn them into people"
" ten years from now, do you suppose the student will remember his calculus? or will she remember instead, the lessons learned in her sports participation?
" it's ok, it's good,, for the University to support finacially, it's athletic department...we don't realistically expect the athletic departments to self-fund....sports sponsorship on a wide range of experiences for college students is an acceptable part of the university mission because Athletics is in fact, part and parcel of the educational experiance. It's where many lessons are learned in life."
