back-to-*** transition - any advice?

I practice this type of turn almost every day. My turn is not as deep.

I got DQed this past weekend for my transition from back to *** in the 200IM. I don't know what I did wrong. OUCH! That really hurts! How will you know if you're still doing whatever it is? Or if it you really were illegal. The uncertainty would drive me nuts. This is part of my dilemma. I'm hesitant to go trying something too radically different from my usual - I mean, my turn is slow, but at least I know it's legal.

I got DQed this past weekend for my transition from back to *** in the 200IM. I don't know what I did wrong.

You should definitely talk to your coach about your turn, and other turns that would work for you. But don't be afraid to try something different from what you're used to!

Darn, these coaches in charge of highest level of coaching here (not master coaches) looked at me puzzled and said: don't worry about these details, a turn is a turn. This turn isn't easy to master I find, specially on both sides, but it is worth it I find. My only fear is that it be misinterpreted by some regional level officials and be mistakenly dqed as a result of this. High level coaches, if you don't know exactly how to perform this turn in a way that is safe (avoiding dqs) and efficient, SHAME ON YOU GUYS! Bare in mind that the Devil's in the details. Solar... I am both an IM swimmer and a coach. My aim is to perform and to coach fast, legal, and efficient turns. That also includes the ability to achieve great "underwaters" off the turn. My personal experience is this: #1 - There are very few masters swimmers willing to practice enough to perfect this back to *** IM flip-turn to make it better than a great open turn. #2 - A swimmer needs "big air" on this turn to perform a great breaststroke underwater pull and breakout. Generally speaking I believe most swimmers have a better opportunity to get that big breath on the open turn. But I am not saying here that you can not get a big breath on the flip turn. #3 - Rules have changed. A swimmer must clearly touch the wall with their hand on this flip-turn. Isobel - I work hard on these "stroke turns" to get my hands off the wall before my feet touch. I imagine a rocking horse motion if that helps in the description. Ahelee P.S. I got DQed in Austin at Nationals in the 400IM last year for beginning my breastroke pulldown off the turn still rotated to the side - or before I was fully rotated to flat. I worked on this flaw A LOT in the next year and am still conscious of it on each breastroke pulldown.

I try to do a good bucket turn on my back to breaststroke pullout. But, it all depends on what arm hits the wall. For some reason, I can't do it as well with with right arm as I do with the left arm. One tip, check floswimming.com for Ande's backstroke to breaststroke turn. It is really quick. He seems to touch the wall and do a back flip.

Isobel - I work hard on these "stroke turns" to get my hands off the wall before my feet touch. I imagine a rocking horse motion if that helps in the description. Ahelee I can see that that would help the torquing. I need to practice this transition a lot too. I kind of like the flip turn alternative, even though it sucks away air. I've never done the flip turn at a meet, just tried it at practice a few times. Easier not to get DQ'd with that turn, I think, since you are clearly on your back, then flip clearly onto your stomach.

The coach for BU masters spent some time with me on this transition. I kind of pulled my back out by trying to whirl my legs under me really fast. Apparently I was torquing my body. So don't torque. I don't do the flip turn. Every coach I've asked says this is an awkward transition. I don't grab the gutter anymore, and I mainly try to get my feet planted deeply enough so I get a good pushoff under the water. I've gotten DQ'd for the pullout, not the turn, because I dolphin kicked before moving my arms back toward my feet in the breaststroke pullout. But I saw a lot of people get DQ'd at New England SCY championships I think because they were still too much on their backs as they sped away from the wall. It seemed like an unusual number of DQs for a meet, and I wondered whether the fast suits made people less aware of body position in this turn. Or maybe the judges are getting pickier.

You should definitely talk to your coach about your turn, and other turns that would work for you. But don't be afraid to try something different from what you're used to! It's exactly what I did here up north in Canada, asked very high profile coaches (more than one) to explain me this turn I found on YouTube nowadays performed by most good IM swimmers. Darn, these coaches in charge of highest level of coaching here (not master coaches) looked at me puzzled and said: don't worry about these details, a turn is a turn. This turn isn't easy to master I find, specially on both sides, but it is worth it I find. My only fear is that it be misinterpreted by some regional level officials and be mistakenly dqed as a result of this. This turn is well documented in Maglischo latest edition: Swimming Fastest for those (like me) for whom just looking at a youtube clip isn't enough. High level coaches, if you don't know exactly how to perform this turn in a way that is safe (avoiding dqs) and efficient, SHAME ON YOU GUYS! Bare in mind that the Devil's in the details.

I got DQed in Austin at Nationals in the 400IM last year for beginning my breastroke pulldown off the turn still rotated to the side - or before I was fully rotated to flat. I worked on this flaw A LOT in the next year and am still conscious of it on each breastroke pulldown. I thought you just had to be more towards your ***, not flat? Because if you are meant to be flat, all my *** turns are illegal: I come off the wall on my side and sometimes use the pulldown to finish rotating. I believe my coach said that *was* legal.