As an "outsider" to the world of "hardcore" swimming ...

I may be wrong, but aren't most forums somewhat this way? I participate in a few and have always noticed being a "newbie" on a board is intimidating. If you check out any of the Scout college sports boards they are a good example. Many forums are a whole lot harsher--complete with expletives, name calling and trolling. This one seems pretty tame to me. As for people being "self-congratulatory," I see it more as people being excited about their accomplishments. I think most on this board are excited about others' accomplishments as well (whether they be World Records or completing first practices). To me, that's a good thing. That said, I think you just have to jump in and post. Eventually you will become part of the discussion (even if it's just being the cranky devil's advocate :angel:). I've noticed the same thing... you go to any site that has a forum, and you will get the clique-effect whenever the same people post a majority of the time. They create relationships... so if you don't post a lot, they don't get to know you. I lurk most of the time because a lot of other posters have already answered the question the way I would have. However, if I have a question, the swimmers here always have a thoughtful response. I'd also like to say that you cannot get the same type of response about our hard work efforts from family and friends that are non-swimmers... everyone here knows what we all are going thru.

People here like to talk about successes in training and competitions because they know they'll have a receptive ear. This is something as swimmers we might not get at home or among non-swimming friends. I am still getting grief at home over the Blue 70 purchase. FYI I provide cardiology advice, while Geek is willing to share his recipes for squirrel and fried pork rinds.

Interesting responses, and I see it gave the regulars a chance to yuck it up amongst themselves--once again. Sigh. Lest anyone think I'm not familiar with the nature of internet message boards, I have participated in quite a few and continue to do so. But given my enjoyment of and dedication to swimming, I guess I have envisioned for a while now something of a higher caliber here that would provide a means of connection for the USMS community at large. Perhaps a sticky thread (note my familiarity with message-board lingo) dedicated to "outsiders" or fitness swimmers, where talk of competition and inside jokes are discouraged, would be a good idea. What say ye moderators?

Interesting responses, and I see it gave the regulars a chance to yuck it up amongst themselves--once again. Sigh. Lest anyone think I'm not familiar with the nature of internet message boards, I have participated in quite a few and continue to do so. But given my enjoyment of and dedication to swimming, I guess I have envisioned for a while now something of a higher caliber here that would provide a means of connection for the USMS community at large. Perhaps a sticky thread (note my familiarity with message-board lingo) dedicated to "outsiders" or fitness swimmers, where talk of competition and inside jokes are discouraged, would be a good idea. What say ye moderators? Yes good idea. The HTT (Holier Than Thou) Section; put it at the bottom so I don't have to scroll past. Sheesh. Everyone's been nice and tried to welcome you in (even with your lead off general insult), but you are still giving it the large one. Guess what, you've probably become an inside joke now. :bow::bow::bow: Can we discuss water temperature or what colour goggles we prefer?

sftom, welcome. Lurking is great if you have a question that has already been answered. Doesn't work so well, once you would like some interactive help. There is a small group that is really good at providing that kind of help, and thus end up with thousands of posts next to their name. There is nothing wrong with being a lurker or even a poster who only posts a few times. If your goal is for everyone to know your name, then it makes sense to post often, and hopefully meaningfully. It is frustrating at times. Over 90% of USMS swimmers swim for fitness and don't compete, but the magazine and forums tend to obsess over competition. If you think of swimming as a spectrum, with fitness swimmers at one end and competitive swimmers on the over, the spectrum is probably pretty short. As a fitness swimmer, you might only care about getting in and doing your thing until you feel adequately tired. In that case, you don't care about forums, magazines, work outs or any kind of competition. You just want a lane open when you want to swim. As a competitive swimmer, you care about training techniques, starts, turns, how other people are competing that are either your friends or your competitors, depending on how you look at it. A fitness swimmer who wants to become a better swimmer cares about a lot of the same things as a competitive swimmer. They want to get better, and they need a way to measure that. How the two groups measure that could be completely different, but both need workouts that will push them, and methods to improve technique. If you think Swimmer is competition focused, pick up a copy of Swimming World. Meet results, meet reviews, interviews with champion age groupers, and to me, boring boring boring. I think we have it pretty good, but I would love to hear what someone who only cares about fitness would like to see added to Swimmer, because it is very likely that whatever they came up with would be of interest to me, some who attends meets, but probably won't see a top 10 time. There's quite a bit of hero worship, too. I wish I was Jazz Hands in the morning during my swim workout, and am thankful that I am not in the evening during my weight workout. www.usms.org/.../showthread.php :bow:

Seriously, if you have such a dim view of the posters here, why bother reading? And, for the second time, no, you will not turn into a "turnip" because you are not competing. But there is no reason to belittle people that are competing or that obsess about it. That is our choice too. Oh a new Swimming Stereotype The Turnip

Yes good idea. The HTT (Holier Than Thou) Section; put it at the bottom so I don't have to scroll past. Sheesh. Everyone's been nice and tried to welcome you in (even with your lead off general insult), but you are still giving it the large one. Guess what, you've probably become an inside joke now. :bow::bow::bow: Can we discuss water temperature or what colour goggles we prefer?It's spelled "color" :frustrated: Happy? ^.^

I swim a lot and really enjoy it. It's something I've done all of my life, growing up in Southern California, and it's my main form of exercise. I'm good at it, but I do it primarily for health and enjoyment. I've noticed from lurking around this board for several years that there seems to be a very self-congratulatory, cliquish tone to many threads and posts. It seems like it's often a small group of people who post relentlessly, as if they are engaged in some sort of private conversation where they're trying to outdo each other. Maybe I'm the only one who feels that way. Maybe that's part and parcel of the world of "hardcore" competitive swimmers. Or maybe it's because there wouldn't be anything else to talk about, unless there weren't a constant focus on who's the "best" at this or that. A race is something that happens once in a while, whereas a lifetime of swimming lasts, well, a lifetime. Yes, it's great to break a certain time in a certain race, but it's also great to have the self-discpline to keep at a daily swimming program and work on improving one's technique and endurance. Both are valid, and, to my mind, neither is more worthy of praise than the other. Jim Thornton, if I recall correctly, noted a while ago that there were a lot of people lurking around the board and not really participating. If that is the case, I would propose that may be due to the general off-putting tone of things on here. (I won't give examples at this point, although I could.)Wow. I don't like your writing style. I didn't fully grasp the point you were trying to make until the last sentence. I was making you out to be a sophomoric tight wad who likes to tell the uppity competitive types to F off. However, as a big time forum user I know that, it's not uncommon to have lurkers. It's not that they feel discouraged. They just don't feel like posting. A lot of times people just google swimming and forums like this pop up with a convenient answer to their question, or not.

It is frustrating at times. Over 90% of USMS swimmers swim for fitness and don't compete, but the magazine and forums tend to obsess over competition. It's crazy, and that disconnect can be maddening. I've been meaning to complain about it, but I'm usually too whipped from swim practice and a beer after. The great thing is that you are among swimmers, and swimmers will bend over backwards to help other swimmers, no matter who you are or are not. If you're not getting what you want, just ask. How to fix the magazine to reflect the needs and interests of the vast majority of USMS, I don't know.You could always write a magazine yourself. However, I doubt people will actually buy it. That's usually the problem. Then again, find some hot models and it could work.

Shouldn't the flag be upside down and with corks hanging from it? :D We don't use corks in our beerbottles. If they're not twist-top then they're cans (or kegs)........:canada: